THE CHANNEL TUNNEL (Hansard, 1 July 1964)

§ THE PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY, MINISTRY OF TRANSPORT (LORD CHESHAM)
My Lords, with your Lordships' permission, I will now repeat a Statement on the Channel Tunnel which has just been made by my right honourable friend the Minister of Transport in another place:
"The British and French Governments have decided that the further geological survey for the Channel Tunnel should begin this summer.
"Arrangements are being made for the Channel Tunnel Study Group to conduct the survey on an agency basis under the general supervision of the British and French Governments, who are to appoint a Joint Commission of Surveillance for the purpose.
"Half the cost will be met by Her Majesty's Government and half by the French Railways which, at the instance of the French Government, are participating in the contractual arrangements with the Study Group for this purpose.
"The survey is expected to cost about one and a quarter million pounds. I shall shortly be asking the House to make provision for the British share by way of Supplementary Estimate. Meanwhile, any expenditure on the British side would fall to be met by an advance from the Civil Contingencies Fund.
"The survey arrangements are entirely without prejudice to decisions yet to be made by the British and French Governments on the organisation and financing of the Channel Tunnel project: but the present intention of both Governments is that, eventually, the cost of the survey shall be charged to whatever organisation may be set up for the Tunnel itself. 607 "Copies of the texts of an exchange of Notes between the British and French Governments on these matters will be placed in the Library of the House."
That is the Statement.

§ EARL ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGH
My Lords, on this occasion we are obliged for the courtesy of the Government in giving us this Statement for which we specially asked in the circumstances in which it arose. The statement now made is, of course, just what we have been expecting as a result of the Statement made to your Lordships last February. It is a little delayed, perhaps; nevertheless, it is a very good thing to organise this survey, which we understand will cost £l¼ million. There are two points I should like to raise with the Minister about it. The first is as to the Joint Commission of Surveillance which, in the case of France, is to have technical advice from the French Railways. Will similar plans be followed to have British advice given to the British end of that Commission? No mention is made of that, and I thought it rather strange to have special mention of the French Railways and nothing with regard to the British.
The other point I think was raised before in your Lordships' House, and that is whether in the general survey some account will be taken of what would be the likely effect upon industrial development in this country and whether there will be over-stressing of movement of industry to the South-East because of this particular project. And may I ask whether this is also to be part of the case to be inquired into and to be submitted from the British end to the Joint Commission of Surveillance?

LORD REA
My Lords, before the noble Lord replies, may I say that I think he will appreciate that almost everybody will welcome greatly the fact that matters are now going ahead. Progress on the question has been rather tardy for some time, and this Statement which he has made is most welcome. I was going to ask him a question which I rather think has been asked by the noble Earl, but I am not quite sure whether it is the same. I see that half the cost is to be met by Her Majesty's Government, and half by 608 the French Railways. That does not seem quite an ordinary balance. Is it a distinction without any difference? Are the British Government and the French Government in fact both paying?

§ LORD CHESHAM
My Lords, I am pleased to endeavour to answer the questions that have been put, and if I may start with the last one, I would ask your Lordships to believe that it is sufficiently difficult for me to do my best to answer for the British Government without answering for the French Government as well. On the particular matter raised by the noble Lord, Lord Rea, all I can say at the moment is that it is of course a matter for the French Government; but I understand that, for some reason of their own, they find it more convenient to deal with the matter in this way. As I understand it, the effect in the long run is much the same. There is nothing, I fear, that I can add to that.
On the noble Earl's first question, there is of course quite adequate representation on the Joint Commission of Surveillance, and the British co-chairman of it will he Colonel McMullen, who is the Chief Inspecting Officer of Railways in the Department of my right honourable friend; and Doctor Stubblefield, who is the director of the geological survey, will also be a member of the Commission. I understand that other experts will be appointed in due course, including a finance member, and that the composition of the Commission will be in parallel with similar experts appointed, one by the French and one by ourselves.
Of course, the effect that the Tunnel might have on development in the South-East is not a matter for this Commission which is engaged on surveillance of the geological survey for the method of construction and the route of the Tunnel. But I assure the noble Earl that, while it is not their particular pigeon, I would agree that it is Her Majesty's Government's pigeon and it is one to which they are paying due attention.

§ LORD BOOTHBY
My Lords, may I ask my noble friend whether he can give us any indication of how long this geological survey is expected to take, when it might be completed?

§ LORD CHESHAM
My Lords, the best I can say on that is that, subject. obviously, to physical difficulties and 609 weather, I certainly hope that it will be completed within about one year.

LORD HAWKE
My Lords, pending the conclusion of this geological survey, will my noble friend ensure that the main railway lines from the Tunnel mouth to the Midlands running via Ton-bridge and Reading are not closed?

§ LORD CHESHAM
My Lords, in principle I should be delighted to help my noble friend, if I could be quite certain where the Tunnel mouth was.

§ LORD PEDDIE
My Lords, will this Commission be concerned exclusively with the geological and engineering aspects of this construction, or will it also embrace all the economic aspects of the problem?

§ LORD CHESHAM
My Lords, I had hoped that I had not given the impression that that was their job. The social, economic and other aspects are most certainly matters for the French and for the British Governments, and in due course they will most certainly be facing up to them in a way which is proper. But the first stage, obviously, is the geological survey, to ascertain the actual facts upon which the project can be accurately based.

§ EARL ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGH
My Lords, may I thank the Minister for his helpful replies to questions on this matter? There is only one point that has occurred to us on this side: we were not quite sure whether the appointment of one or two transport officers to the Joint Commission on the British side is quite the equivalent of what is being done by the French Government in relation to the French Railways. Will they be equally represented?

§ LORD CHESHAM
Yes, my Lords, I had hoped that I had reassured the House on that point. If not, I hasten to do so again. The appointments to the Commission are on a parallel level, and this business of the French Railways— which I have found some difficulty in explaining, because am not in a position to do so—is in fact something which suits the financial arrangements of the French rather than having direct participation.
610 But it gives them no extra power, so to speak, compared with us on this particular Commission, which, I am quite sure, is running in parallel.