HL Deb 01 July 1964 vol 259 cc585-7

3.0 p.m.

LORD KENNET

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the first Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what systems and parts of systems for the British Polaris Submarine Force will be constructed by, or imported from, the United States.]

THE MINISTER OF DEFENCE FOR THE ROYAL NAVY (EARL JELLICOE)

My Lords, Article III, Paragraphs 1 and 2, of the Polaris Sales Agreement (Command Paper 1995) sets out in broad terms the systems and sub-systems which are being purchased from the Government of the United States of America. These comprise the weapon system as a whole (except for the warhead) and the complex arrangement of electrical, hydraulic and air sub-systems which operate and support it.

LORD KENNET

While thanking the noble Earl for his reply, may I draw his attention to something said by the Prime Minister in another place on April 23?

SEVERAL NOBLE LORDS

No, no!

LORD KENNET

This is still in the form of a question. May I draw the noble Earl's attention to a Question answered by the Prime Minister—

SEVERAL NOBLE LORDS

No, no!

LORD KENNET

Is the noble Earl aware that, on that date in another place, the Prime Minister explained that we are exporting plutonium to the United States; that this is not going to be used for military purposes; and that, in exchange for this, the United States is exporting uranium-235 to us, although he did not say that this material was not going to be used for military purposes? Is it not the case that this American U235 is going to be used in the warheads, which are allegedly of British manufacture, of the missiles for Polaris submarines, and also as fuel in the propulsion units of these submarines; and that, therefore, the claim that they are of independent British manufacture and control looks even thinner than it once did?

EARL JELLICOE

My Lords, so far as the independence or otherwise of the Force is concerned, I think the position is quite clear. The Force will be under our own ultimate control, and it will therefore be genuinely capable of operating, if there should be the need for it, as a genuinely independent Force. So far as concerns what is going into the submarines, I am of course aware of the statement by the Prime Minister in another place on April 23, but I would draw the noble Lord's attention to paragraph 28 of the Defence White Paper, which I am sure will reassure him, if he needs reassurance, on this point. The first sentence of that, if I may briefly quote it, reads: We have now reached a point where supplies of fissile material already available or assured will be sufficient to maintain our independent nuclear deterrent and to meet all our defence requirements for the foreseeable future.

LORD KENNET

But could the noble Earl answer the direct questions: whether or not these submarines will be fuelled by American U235, and whether or not the warheads will contain the American U235?

EARL JELLICOE

I should like notice of the specific question on fuelling, because these are difficult and complicated matters and I certainly should not wish to give a reply "off the cuff" on that. So far as the warheads are concerned, I am advised that it is not possible to say whether any of or all the fissile material for these warheads would have been manufactured at Capenhurst or imported from the United States. But I would, if I might, again remind the noble Lord that paragraph 28 of the Defence White Paper went on to say: If at any time further supplies of fissile material are required for defence purposes it will be possible to resume or increase British production.