HL Deb 22 January 1964 vol 254 cc931-3

2.56 p.m.

THE EARL OF SANDWICH

My Lords, I beg to ask leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, in the light of the preliminary results of the recent Survey, which states that between half and three-quarters of rural households without private transport are hindered by lack of public facilities, they will take steps to amend the law to enable private rural transport operators more readily to provide these facilities.]

THE LORD CHANCELLOR (LORD DILHORNE)

My Lords, my right honourable friend the Minister of Transport is in consultation with the associations representing the local authorities and with the bus operators with a view to establishing exactly what practical measures are best calculated to help in solving the rural transport problem. As these consultations are in progress, I am unable to give your Lordships any further information at present.

THE EARL OF SANDWICH

My Lords, I am grateful for that reply from my noble and learned friend on the Woolsack, which is much more forthcoming than other replies we have had on this subject in the last year. May I ask the Government whether there is not some analogy between this question and the Government's excellent measure to abolish resale price maintenance, in that real competition and service to the consumer are hindered by Section 125 of the Road Traffic Act, 1960, as it stands to-day, with the onus of proof of the need for public transport on the intending operator, leaving the existing operator confirmed and protected in his often unenterprising ways? Ought not the Government to carry their anti-protective legislation into the field of transport as well as commerce?

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Earl for letting me have the advantage of hearing his argument. I should not have thought that any question on resale price maintenance could be related to the original Question the noble Earl tabled.

LORD LINDGREN

My Lords, will the noble and learned Lord also appreciate that the protected rights of the people are concerned, and will he see that the Minister of Transport is informed that the question of maintenance of vehicles used in public transport is of the highest importance?

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

My Lords, I am sure my right honourable friend recognises that, and indeed all the other factors involved, including the problem which now exists with regard to rural transport. All these matters are under discussion and, as I have said, my right honourable friend is in the process of consultation. I really do not think I can add anything to what I have already said in reply.

LORD HAWKE

My Lords, would the Minister not overlook the possibility of having part-time drivers, perhaps women, on minibuses as a solution to this rural problem?

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

My Lords, I am sure that all these possibilities will come under consideration.

THE EARL OF SANDWICH

My Lords, may I ask my noble and learned friend on the Woolsack whether it is in his mind to make a statement to the House after these consultations to which he referred are concluded? Or would it help if I were to consult with him about an Unstarred Question and possible debate at the appropriate time, during which there could be a ministerial reply?

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

My Lords, I do not think there would be much advantage in having a public debate until these discussions are finished. When they are finished and my right honourable friend can make an announcement, I am sure he will be only too glad to make it at the earliest possible moment.

LORD STONHAM

My Lords, will the noble and learned Lord bear in mind that, until his right honourable friend has fully considered the question of alternative rural buses, there should be no further closures of railway lines?

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

My Lords, my right honourable friend has on many occasions made the position with regard to that absolutely clear. He has said that he will see that an adequate alternative service will be provided where necessary before a railway closure takes place.