§ 3.8 p.m.
§ LORD TAYLORMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the second Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government how many suitably qualified applicants there were for places in medical schools last October, how many found places, and how many failed to find a place.]
THE EARL OF BESSBOROUGHMy Lords, 2,276 students began pre-clinical courses at universities in Great Britain last October. I regret that the total number of suitably qualified applicants for such courses is not ascertainable. The Universities Central Council on Admissions, whose scheme does not at present cover the whole field, have however informed me that 4,556 students applied to them for places in medical faculties. Of these, 19.4 per cent. failed to obtain the minimum academic qualifications for admission to university, and a further unknown number probably failed to obtain the minimum qualifications for medical faculties.
§ LORD TAYLORMy Lords, a very brief calculation on those figures clearly shows that nearly half of those suitably qualified failed to obtain places. Does this not emphasise the need, which we have pressed again and again in this House, for more medical schools? May we know when the first new medical school is likely to be available?
THE EARL OF BESSBOROUGHMy Lords, I appreciate the noble Lord's interest in this matter. I think he will recall that my honourable friend the Joint Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Health said in another place on December 19 that the University Grants Committed had recommended that at least one new medical school should be planned. That advice has been accepted and the U.G.C. is considering the site of location.
§ LORD GREENHILLMy Lords, may I ask the noble Earl whether these numbers apply to those in Scottish universities and medical schools?
THE EARL OF BESSBOROUGHMy Lords, I think I am right in saying they are excluded, as in fact are some of those who applied to London medical schools.
§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILLMy Lords, is the noble Earl aware that 200 girls suitably qualified applied for every available place in the medical schools in this country last autumn? Does he not think that deplorable, in view of the fact that there is such a great shortage of doctors?
THE EARL OF BESSBOROUGHMy Lords, I am very much concerned about this figure; I do not know where the noble Baroness and the noble Lord previously got it from. I have gone into this matter with some care. It seems to me it is extremely misleading. It would mean in fact that there were more applicants than school leavers with two "A" levels in any subject. Your Lordships may remember that, according to the Robbins Report, the total number of students in Great Britain with two "A" levels, or the Scottish equivalent, was 48,600 in 1961 and the number of students who began pre-clinical courses in 1961 was 2,100. If every qualified school leaver wanted to take medicine there could be only 24 British applicants (I think my arithmetic is correct) for every vacant place. Obviously in pratice the number of applicants seeking a vacancy in a medical school must be much lower than 24 for each available place.
§ LORD TAYLORMy Lords, the noble Earl asked where my noble friend got her figure from. She got it from me, and I got it from the Deans of two of the university schools of London University; and indeed it was published in The Times newspaper in a letter from one of the Deans. Is the noble Earl aware that the situation is quite different from that which he has described, and that there is in fact a quota system operated whereby only about 10 per cent. of places are available at most medical schools for women, and in consequence the figures he gave are grossly misleading?
THE EARL OF BESSBOROUGHMy Lords, I am afraid that I must stand by the fact that the noble Lord's figures are misleading.
§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILLMy Lords, as the noble Earl has made such a detailed investigation, can he tell the House what is the percentage of women now in our medical schools in London?
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, the noble Earl said that he had gone into this matter most carefully. Can he say the number of qualified women who wished to enter these schools but failed to enter them because of lack of places? Can he give those figures?
§ LORD SHEPHERDBut you went into it.