HL Deb 25 February 1964 vol 255 cc1031-3

2.49 p.m.

LORD STONHAM

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government why no effective action has been taken to implement the recommendations of the Study Group appointed by the Minister of Health in January, 1961, to consider the grading, training and qualifications of hospital engineers, and when the relevant Whitley Council will resume discussions on the salaries of hospital engineers.]

THE JOINT PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY, MINISTRY OF HEALTH (LORD NEWTON)

My Lords, the recommendations of the Study Group involve a thorough review of the grading structure, appropriate qualifications, training, and status of hospital engineers. Many of the recommendations could not be implemented until after a revision of grading and salary scales, which are matters for the appropriate Whitley Council. Meetings between the management and staff sides have been taking place since December, 1962, the most recent being on February 19, when remuneration was further discussed. Agreement on all the issues involved, some of which are complex, has not yet been reached.

LORD STONHAM

My Lords, is not the noble Lord aware that the recommendations of the study group have now been under consideration for rather more than two years? Although it is appreciated that these must be carefully considered, does he not think that the consideration has been over-long? Secondly, may I ask him whether he is aware that many qualified hospital engineers are now receiving salaries less than those enjoyed by many unskilled workers? The good hospital engineer can save many times his annual salary. Therefore, can the noble Lord not give some assurance that this matter will now be dealt with as a matter of urgency?

LORD NEWTON

My Lords, it is true that the negotiations in the Whitley Council have been going on for a long time, but they have made a good deal of progress. As I said in my original reply, there are one or two aspects of the negotiations which are very complicated indeed. We certainly hope that agreement will be reached as soon as possible. Indeed, yesterday my right honourable friend said in another place that he would like to see a solution as soon as possible and is ready at any time to do what he can to help speed up matters, if that is possible.

LORD STONHAM

My Lords, I am very grateful for that further reply. Would the noble Lord approach his right honourable friend to see whether his helpfulness could be extended to, say, an interim advance in salary scale? Would he also try to make it his business to find out why the management side is reluctant to discuss salaries? On January 24, when writing of the meeting of February 19, they said that they could not guarantee to continue to discuss salaries. Would the noble Lord look into this, as it is obviously important?

LORD NEWTON

My Lords, I understand that remuneration was discussed at the meeting on February 19, and I understand a further meeting has been provisionally arranged for March 13. These are matters which have to be negotiated in the Whitley Council between the two sides, and I do not think that I ought to say anything at all which might prejudice the outcome of the negotiations.

LORD STONHAM

Will the noble Lord bear in mind that this matter is a serious embarrassment to hospital management committees who have the job of appointing qualified staff to carry out these extremely important duties, and that this is another aspect which must be taken into consideration?

LORD NEWTON

My Lords, that may be; but this is a matter for negotiation under the recognised machinery, which is the Whitley Council.