§ 3.7 p.m.
§ BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRYMy Lords I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government how many applications have been received from governing bodies of sport asking for grant-aid for teams competing in overseas events; how many of these have been accepted and how many rejected; what amount of money has been granted for this purpose during 1964; and whether they will make a statement.]
THE PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY TO THE MINISTER FOR SCIENCE (THE EARL OF BESSBOROUGH)My Lords, 15 inquiries have been received in connection with the scheme for Government assistance to teams competing in overseas events, or which 5 may be regarded as applications for financial help. None of these has been accepted and none has been rejected. It follows that so far no money has been granted for the purpose. The Advisory Committee which was set up following the announcement in your Lordships' House on November 14, 1963, has been engaged in formulating the criteria for judging applications for assistance. A questionnaire designed to secure the requisite information will be circulated to the various national sporting bodies within a week.
§ BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRYMy Lords, is the noble Earl aware that his reply is not quite straightforward? I do not mean that rudely, and I will ask him a question, if I may, to elucidate. First of all, is it not true that none of these applications has been accepted or rejected because none has been considered? The next question that I should like to ask the noble Earl is this. Is he aware that my Question asks how much money has been set 639 aside during 1964 for this purpose? I wonder whether he could please deal with those two points first?
THE EARL OF BESSBOROUGHMy Lords, these applications are being considered, but in fact it is not possible, I fear, to give the noble Lady a figure to-day, not even within broad limits. The difficulty is that this is a field in which at this stage no one, either in the Government service or outside it, has enough information on which to base a reliable estimate. The Committee is bound to feel its way. Much will depend upon the merits of the claims which come before the Committee. At the same time, I think the noble Lady will no doubt agree that there must be a limit to the sum which can be granted.
§ BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRYMy Lords, the noble Earl is still being evasive. Does he not realise that the Committee has not yet met to consider these applications? Would he not agree that this is an extremely long delay, as we were informed in this House that this Committee was to be set up on November 14 last? Finally, is he aware that everyone who knows anything about these matters believes that the amount of money which has been set aside is so derisory that the Government are afraid to say how little it is?
THE EARL OF BESSBOROUGHMy Lords, in regard to the first part of the noble Lady's supplementary, I do not think that there has been any avoidable delay, having regard to the fact that Christmas intervened and that there has been a change in the chairmanship of the Advisory Committee. The first task has clearly been to decide how to process the applications.
§ LORD HENDERSONMy Lords, the noble Earl stated that there must be a limit to the amount of money made available for this purpose. Would he be good enough to tell the House what the limit is?
§ LORD MORRISON OF LAMBETHMy Lords, I wish to be fair to the Lord President of the Council, who is, I think, still responsible for sport. Would it not 640 be a reasonable defence for the noble Earl to advance that the Lord President was occupied for some weeks in the campaign for the leadership of the Conservative Party in furtherance of his own career, which might well explain the delay during that time, when he could not give attention to the work of his office?
THE EARL OF GOSFORDMy Lords, am I right in thinking that in his reply my noble friend stated that, of the applications received, none was rejected and none was accepted? Is he aware that the British Universities Sports Federation put in an application last summer for aid to help them send a team to the World University Games in Brazil, and that this was rejected?
THE EARL OF BESSBOROUGHMy Lords, this particular re-formed Advisory Committee was not in existence at that time.
THE EARL OF GOSFORDMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that the Question is:
To ask Her Majesty's Government how many applications have been received from governing bodies of sport …"?It does not say anything about any Committee.
§ LORD OGMOREMy Lords, may I ask the noble Earl whether he has been good enough to look into the question which I asked him yesterday—namely, the position of Wales with regard to membership of this Committee?
THE EARL OF BESSBOROUGHYes, my Lords, I can add something to what I said yesterday. The position of Wales is, of course, somewhat different from that of Scotland in that there is no completely separate Welsh Education Department; but I am glad to be able to inform your Lordships that Sir John Lang's Committee intend to invite a representative of the Welsh Committee for Physical Recreation to attend meetings in all appropriate cases.
§ BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRYMy Lords, could the noble Lord tell me, in conclusion, whether, if I put down a Question say in two weeks' time, he could then tell us a little more about which applications have been accepted 641 and which have been rejected? Will the Committee have met by then?
THE EARL OF BESSBOROUGHThe noble Lady can always put down a further Question. I know the noble Lady well. After all, she has been the World Sprint Champion, and I feel this afternoon it is not possible for me to sprint much further along this particular track. She is also a remarkable skater, and I think she will appreciate that if I go any further this afternoon I may be skating on rather thin ice.
§ LORD WISEMy Lords, before we conclude, may I say that the noble Earl mentioned applications in regard to overseas athletics. Could he tell us how many applications have been received in other branches of athletics at home, or would that require the putting down of a further Question?
§ LORD WISEIf I were to put down a Question, would the noble Earl be able to give me the information as to how many applications have been received?
§ LORD CONESFORDMy Lords, are all these governing bodies of sport set against the idea of games being played for fun?