§ BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will state the names and composition of the Advisory Committee set up under the chairmanship of Sir John Lang to make recommendations for grant-aiding teams taking part in overseas sports events; and which members of the Committee have voting rights.]
THE PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY TO THE MINISTER FOR SCIENCE (THE EARL OF BESSBOROUGH)My Lords, the membership of this Committee comprises, in addition to the Chairman (Sir John Lang), the General Secretary of the Central Council of Physical Recreation, Mr. Walter Winterbottom, and the General Secretary of the British Olympic Association, Mr. K. S. Duncan, with representatives of the Ministry of Education and the Scottish Education Department. A representative of the Scottish Council of Physical Recreation will attend in appropriate cases. The Committee does not proceed by way of voting, so that the last part of the Question does not arise.
§ BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRYMy Lords, in thanking the noble Earl for that information, which I know he has gone to a great deal of trouble to obtain, may I ask him whether I am correct in assuming that, although there is no voting as such on this Committee, applications which come in and are considered would be considered by the 554 Chairman, Mr. Winterbottom and Mr. Duncan and two representatives of the Ministry of Education?
THE EARL OF BESSBOROUGHMy Lords, the answer to that question is, Yes. But I think that I should add that, of course, the ultimate decisions on grants will rest with the Foreign Office and the Commonwealth Relations Office, according to whether the visit is to a foreign country or to a Commonwealth country, because the expenditure will be borne on the Fund of either Department. But it was thought undesirable that these Departments should be actual members of the Advisory Committee which examines applications for grants. Representatives of the two Departments, however, are associated with the Committee and they take part in the discussions about individual applications in a consultative capacity. I am most grateful to the noble Lady for allowing me to make this reply, as there has been a little misunderstanding.
§ BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRYMy Lords, I am afraid that the noble Earl will not be grateful to me much longer, because although I do not know whether he realises it, he has just made a terrible statement so far as the sporting organisations are concerned. I am being quite serious. Before dealing with the more serious aspect, may I ask him this: when it was the intention of this House, and I thought of the Government, to set up a Committee dealing with the grant-aiding of teams taking part in amateur international sporting events overseas, that this should be done by individual people, such as Mr. Winterbottom, Mr. Duncan and the Chairman, why should the Ministry of Education join them? Does the noble Earl not realise that the whole purpose of the Lord President being in charge of this was not to have any individual Ministries joining in at this stage? Could the noble Earl answer that point first?
THE EARL OF BESSBOROUGHYes, my Lords, certainly. The answer to the noble Lady, for whom I have a great admiration and affection, as I am sure all your Lordships have, is that the Education Departments are represented on this Committee because they provide the official members of the Committee, for the reason that their work particularly through Her Majesty's 555 Inspectors, give them the greatest experience of the work of national sporting bodies.
§ BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRYMy Lords, I am so sorry; I feel horrid; but I have to go on with this matter. May I ask the noble Earl whether he does not realise that what I imagine the House must take from his reply is that the question of whether or not we are to grant-aid teams taking part in international sporting events overseas has nothing whatever to do with athletics, but has to do with the political aspect as covered by the Commonwealth Relations Office or the Foreign Office? If that is so, is the noble Earl aware that, quite irrespective of Party, I should think that noble Lords on both sides of the House, and certainly the sports organisations, will rend the Government limb from limb? Could I have an answer to that point?
THE EARL OF BESSBOROUGHMy Lords, I do not think that at the moment the Government are in the position of being rent limb from limb, and certainly will not be on this particular issue. I do not think that there is anything more that I can add. This Committee has been set up under Sir John Lang and has on it the representatives whom I have mentioned. I am afraid that I do not understand why the noble Lady should think that this Committee, with its advisers from the Foreign Office and the Commonwealth Relations Office, should not function in an appropriate manner.
§ LORD OGMOREMy Lords, in view of the great contribution of Wales to sporting events, ma y I ask the noble Earl why there is no representative of the Principality on the Committee?
THE EARL OF BESSBOROUGHMy Lords, I will look into that for the noble Lord, but I am certain that the Ministry of Education do, in fact, cover Wales.
§ BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRYMy Lords, I will leave the matter now, but, with your Lordships permission, may I ask one final point? In your Lordships' House on November 14 [OFFICIAL REPORT, Vol. 253 (No. 3), col. 124] we were told that 556
British teams going to the Olympic or Commonwealth Games will be dealt with separately.If that is the case, why on earth have we to have people dealing with that aspect on this Committee? Are they on both?
THE EARL OF BESSBOROUGHMy Lords, I think that the answer to that is that there are obviously sporting events which do not necessarily come within the range of the Commonwealth Games or British Olympics.
LORD HAWKEMy Lords, may I ask my noble friend whether this Committee will have amateur status or will they be paid expenses?