HL Deb 22 December 1964 vol 262 cc712-4

2.48 p.m.

LORD COLYTON

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government on what grounds they base their decision to refuse to permit the export of arms to Portugal for use in the defence of her overseas provinces.]

THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS (LORD WALSTON)

My Lords, the export of arms to Portuguese overseas territories has been in suspense since 1961. Her Majesty's Government are maintaining this policy for the same reasons as those which motivated their predecessors.

LORD COLYTON

My Lords, I feel sure the noble Lord would not want to suggest that the previous Government were always correct in everything they did, certainly in regard to Africa. But I should like to ask the noble Lord whether the Government are not aware that the situation is now completely different from what it was in 1961; that in fact there is no revolutionary internal movement in either Angola or Mozambique at the present time; and that the only external threat exists, in the case of Angola, in two Communist-led movements financed from outside the country, and, in the case of Mozambique, again, in a movement from outside the country which is being organised entirely contrary to the conditions laid down in the United Nations Charter. In these circumstances, would it not be right to give Portugal—and I include her overseas provinces—the power to defend herself against these attacks from outside?

LORD WALSTON

My Lords, I would certainly agree with the noble Lord that Her Majesty's late Government were not always right in everything they did, particularly concerning Africa; but I would also say that they were not always entirely wrong in what they did. In this instance their action was entirely right and justified and we do not feel that the circumstances in Africa have changed sufficiently for us to make any change in the policies then accepted.

LORD COLYTON

While thanking the noble Lord for that answer, I should like to ask him a further question. Having regard to the situation in various parts of Africa, is he aware that there is a total absence of any kind of racial discrimination in law and practice in Portugal itself and in the African provinces, which we in this country, certainly, and those in other countries of the world, might do well to emulate? Will he not have regard to this in the future in reviewing this question, as I hope he will, of the supply of arms to Portugal?

LORD WALSTON

My Lords, with respect, I do not think that the particular question that the noble Lord has just asked entirely follows upon the original one, but I would go so far as to say that I agree with him that wherever there is a complete absence of racial discrimination we would certainly do what we could to encourage that particular form of activity in any country, either in Africa or elsewhere.

LORD HENDERSON

My Lords, may I ask whether the fact that there is an alleged external threat to the Portuguese territories should not be dealt with, not by the supply of arms but by reporting the danger to the United Nations?

LORD WALSTON

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for his intervention. This is undoubtedly the correct way in which to deal with any threat of outside aggression.

BARONESS SUMMERSKILL

My Lords, would the noble Lord not agree that it would be paradoxical for Britain and France to give independence to their colonies and, at the same time, to give arms to Portugal in order that that country might maintain control of its colonies?

LORD WALSTON

My Lords, there would certainly appear to be a considerable contradiction in the two policies.

THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY

My Lords, in view of the fact that there are very wide international issues involved over the whole African situation at the present time, are we to understand—at any rate from the noble Lord's answer—that the mind of Her Majesty's Government is not closed should they see any change in the international position which requires support for Portugal?

LORD WALSTON

My Lords, the mind of Her Majesty's Government is never closed and we are always prepared not only to accept suggestions, from whatever source they may come, but also to alter policies (either those of our predecessors or our own) should international or other circumstances make it advisable to do so.

LORD BARNBY

My Lords, in what appears to be a related matter, would the noble Lord be able to substantiate reports made public that Portugal, which has bought naval vessels from this country since the latter part of the last century, has recently placed orders elsewhere for naval vessels to the extent of some £40 million sterling?

LORD WALSTON

My Lords, I would remind the noble Lord that this Question is dealing specifically with arms for the use of overseas territories. If he would like further information on the point he has raised, perhaps he would put down a Question in due course.