§ 3.53 p.m.
§ THE MINISTER OF DEFENCE FOR THE ROYAL AIR FORCE (LORD SHACKLETON)My Lords, with your Lordships' permission I should like to intervene to repeat a Statement which is being made by my right honourable friend the First Secretary of State and Secretary of State for Economic Affairs, in another place, on the Government's proposals for the organisation of regional economic planning. The Statement is as follows:
"The purpose of the regional councils and boards which the Government intend to establish is to provide effective machinery for regional economic planning within the framework of the national plan for economic development.
"Regional economic planning has two main purposes: first, to provide for a full and balanced development of the country's economic and social resources; and secondly, to ensure that the regional implications of growth are clearly understood and taken into account in the planning of land use, of development—in particular of industrial development—and of services.
"The economic planning councils will be concerned with broad strategy on regional development and the best use of the regions' resources.
"Their principal function will be to assist in the formulation of regional plans and to advise on their implementation. They will have no executive powers.
"The economic planning boards will provide machinery for co-ordinating the work of Government Departments concerned with regional planning and development, and their creation will not affect the existing powers and responsibilities of local authorities or existing Ministerial responsibilities.
"Since regional economic planning must be on a broad scale, the number of planning regions required should be kept as few as possible.
"Special attention will be given to those areas within each region which have particular economic problems, 242 and neighbouring councils and boards will co-operate on problems which cut across regional boundaries.
"Separate economic planning boards will be established in Scotland and Wales, whose Chairmen will be officials appointed by my right honourable friends the Secretaries of State, who will also appoint the economic planning councils.
"In England there will be the following regions:
Northern: covering Cumberland, Durham, North Riding of Yorkshire, Northumberland, Westmoreland.
North West: covering Cheshire, Lancashire, and the High Peak District.
Yorkshire and Humberside: covering the East and West Ridings of Yorkshire, and Lindsey.
East Midlands: covering Derbyshire, Leicestershire, Holland, Kesteven, Northamptonshire, Nottinghamshire, and Rutland.
West Midlands: covering Herefordshire, Shropshire, Staffordshire, Warwickshire, and Worcestershire.
South West: covering Cornwall, Devon, Dorset, Gloucestershire, Somerset, and Wiltshire.
No decisions will be taken about regional organisation for the rest of England until we have completed our review of the policies set out in the previous Government's White Paper on South-East England.
"A map showing these areas is available in the Vote Office.
"The offices of the English economic planning boards will be in Newcastle, Manchester, Leeds, Nottingham, Birmingham and Bristol.
"The Chairmen of these boards will be officials of my Department, and other Departments will make suitable arrangements to enable them to make a full contribution to the work of the boards.
"Steps will be taken as soon as possible to house in the same building the regional planning staff of the Departments concerned.
"The members of the economic planning councils will be appointed 243 as individuals and not as delegates or representatives of particular interests, but they will be widely representative of different types of experience within the region.
"I and my right honourable friends propose to discuss the procedure for the selection of members of the councils with the local authority associations and other organisations concerned.
"I hope to make an announcement about the membership of some of the councils early in the New Year.
"In some of the planning areas, development councils are in active existence, drawing their finance from local authorities and from industry in the regions.
"The Government see a continuing place for such councils to complement the work of the economic planning councils.
"We shall continue to contribute financial help towards the valuable publicity work done by the Scottish Council and the North East Development Council under the arrangements made by the previous Government.
"In due course the economic planning councils will take over the responsibilities at present carried by the Regional Boards for Industry.
"I propose to discuss with the T.U.C. and the employers' organisations the best means of ensuring that the new machinery, when it is set up, profits from the valuable experience built up by the boards over a period of years."
§ 3.58 p.m.
§ THE EARL OF DUNDEEMy Lords, we are grateful to the noble Lord for making this Statement. I received a copy of it only a few minutes before the noble Lord got to his feet, and I am afraid that I have not taken it in quite as rapidly as I ought to have done. Perhaps the noble Lord would be kind enough to elucidate two points which I should like to put to him. There is one general point about the boards and councils, and one particular question about Scotland.
My general question is this. I think the noble Lord said that the councils will be entirely advisory and have no executive powers, and that they will be 244 representative of local interests, whereas the boards (which will have, I take it, executive functions because they will have to provide machinery for coordinating the work of the Government Departments concerned) will have departmental chairmen. Ought we to take it from that that all the members of the planning boards with a departmental chairman will be departmental officials, or can the boards include non-departmental members?
Then, as for the councils, I think the noble Lord said that he hoped to announce their membership in the New Year. I wonder if he could tell us whether they will be entirely non-departmental, nothing to do with the Government Departments, and not having any officials appointed as their members. I just ask that for elucidation. If the noble Lord would like to answer that point, perhaps I could put the Scottish question afterwards.
§ LORD SHACKLETONMy Lords, that would be helpful. I sympathise with the noble Earl: there is rather a lot to absorb, and I am sorry he did not get the Statement earlier. The noble Earl is quite right. The planning councils are non-executive, and their members are essentially representative of the interests and experience in the particular region. They are concerned with advising on the broad strategy of regional development and the best use of the region's resources, and, of course, their chairmen will have access to the First Secretary of State. Although I should like to be advised further on this, I do not think it is quite right to say that the regional boards have executive powers independently. They have members who certainly are all civil servants, and are drawn from the various Departments concerned, but of course they tie in with the national plan.
§ THE EARL OF DUNDEEThey are all departmental?
§ LORD SHACKLETONThe noble Earl is right, to the best of my knowledge: they are all departmental. Does this make the position clear?
§ THE EARL OF DUNDEEAnd the others are all non-departmental?
§ LORD SHACKLETONThe others, the regional councils, are, so to speak, the public representative side. The regional boards are the official side.
§ THE EARL OF DUNDEEI thank the noble Lord very much. I just wanted to make clear that they are quite different sets of people, and not overlapping. I shall quite understand if the noble Lord is not able to answer straight away my next question about Scotland, but he will perhaps remember that at the beginning of 1963 the Secretary of State for Scotland appointed what was called the Scottish Development Group. That is entirely departmental and its functions, so far as I can see, are almost identical with what the Statement says will be the functions of these new regional planning boards with a departmental chairman. I was wondering whether the noble Lord could tell me whether the new board will supersede the existing Scottish Development Group, or will it just be another name for it?
Then the noble Lord said that account would be taken of the views of certain existing non-departmental bodies in Scotland, such as the North-East Development Council, and so on. I do not want to ask him now about the proposed Highlands Development Board, although 1 dare say somebody will want to ask him about that. But we should like to have answered this question of whether the existing Scottish Development Group is to go on as it is, or whether it will be replaced by the new board whose chairman, according to the Statement, is to be appointed by the Secretary of State for Scotland.
§ LORD SHACKLETONMy Lords, the noble Earl is right in his supposition. I am afraid that I am not able to supply a definite answer to these questions. Without wishing to deny to noble Lords the opportunity to ask questions, may I say that it might be helpful if they would digest the Statement and look at the map? Certainly, these are questions to which I am sure an answer exists.
§ THE EARL OF DUNDEEI quite appreciate that, but I should like to know as soon as possible, if the noble Lord could obtain the information.
§ LORD SILKINMy Lords, may I ask my noble friend whether the effect of the setting up of these regional bodies will not be to delay still further applications for planning development, which are already over-long delayed, by interposing an additional body that will need to be consulted? Although they will not 246 have executive powers, I imagine that their advice will be very much taken into account. While I am not putting this question in order to object to the setting up of these councils, I hope that the noble Lord will make representations to his right honourable friend to ensure that their introduction does not result in further undue delay.
§ LORD SHACKLETONI am afraid, my Lords, that I think I must say that that is really another question. I should not have thought the councils would interfere in any way with existing procedure on planning permisison. But I have certainly taken note of what my noble friend has said and will pass that on.
§ LORD SILKINMy Lords, if my noble friend would not have thought that, then he obviously has not understood the purport of my question. Because it seems to me obvious that if a local planning authority has to consult an additional body, a regional body, before giving a decision, in many cases that must inevitably result in some delay. My question was directed to getting an assurance from the noble Lord's right honourable friend, that that point will be looked into to ensure that the delay will be as short as possible.