HL Deb 03 December 1964 vol 261 cc1199-202

3.20 p.m.

LORD COLWYN

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government how many immigrants, including those from the West Indies, Pakistan, India, and possibly Hong Kong and Singapore, are living on National Assistance and how many are working; and whether, before they come here, they have a medical inspection to see whether they have T.B. or venereal diseases.]

THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE FOR COMMONWEALTH RELATIONS AND FOR THE COLONIES (LORD TAYLOR)

My Lords, figures giving the numbers of immigrants in receipt of National Assistance and in employment are not, I am sorry to say, available. Neither the National Assistance Act nor the Board's records discriminate in any way between immigrants and others. There is no power under the Commonwealth Immigrants Act to require medical examination other than at the port of entry to this country.

LORD COLWYN

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, but he has not answered the second part of my Question. It is not a supplementary question; but could the noble Lord say whether, before they come to this country, they have an examination for T.B. or for venereal diseases?

LORD TAYLOR

My Lords, I have in fact tried to answer it. The situation is that there is no power to enforce such an examination in the countries from which the people are coming. It might very well be undesirable to try to do so, for many of these countries are extremely short of medical facilities, and they might in fact be rather inefficiently examined. So I think it would be unwise to try to make such arrangements. For example, if they were invited to purchase X-ray films themselves before they came, there would be no guarantee of the quality of the radiological reports.

LORD COLWYN

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord again, but the main point, if I may ask this supplementary question, is that when I went to America eighteen months ago I went through a very strict medical examination. I spent three and a half hours in hospital, and they checked me from my head to my toes. Surely, to save the staff in this country, would it not be possible, while these immigrants are on their way over, for the people on the ship to do it, or for it to be done before they leave—in fact, anything like that?

LORD TAYLOR

My Lords, unfortunately, this would not be possible even if it were desirable—and there are pros and cons on this. The net inflow of immigrants from new Commonwealth countries alone—and, of course, we could not discriminate in this way between new and old Commonwealth countries—from July 1, 1962, to the end of October, 1964, was 124,000, and to have three-hour medical examinations for all these people before they come in would, I fear, be impracticable. We are, however, doing what we can at the points of entry by way of offering facilities, which really are, I think, helpful.

LORD NEWTON

My Lords, can the noble Lord say whether it is possible to provide better X-ray facilities at London Airport?

LORD TAYLOR

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Newton, for that question, for I know he took a great personal interest in this matter when he was at the Ministry of Health, and I am pleased to be able to tell him that, as a result of his activities, the job is now in hand. The difficulty was that the protection of the accommodation for radiological screening, so that there was not an escape of X-rays into the rest of London Airport, has taken a little time; but work has now begun, and it should be finished within ten weeks.

LORD NEWTON

I am much obliged to the noble Lord.

BARONESS SUMMERSKILL

My Lords, am I right in saying that the medical officer at the port of entry does X-ray those cases where he suspects that there may be some infection, and could the noble Lord say what propor- that there may be some infection, and tion is X-rayed?

LORD TAYLOR

My Lords, I could not say, without notice, what proportion is X-rayed. It is at the medical officer's discretion. The main port of entry is, in fact, London Airport: this is where most of them come. They receive their medical examination; but, with the present arrangements, it would be impossible for such examination to be universal. When the plans of the noble Lord, Lord Newton, mature, which we hope will be very soon, it will be possible to X-ray more of these immigrants and to notify medical officers of health in receiving areas if people have an infection.

LORD WAKEFIELD OF KENDAL

My Lords, the noble Lord said that there could not be any discrimination between new and old Commonwealth countries. But why not? He gave as a reason for the impossibility of medical examination for all the shortage of facilities in some countries. But if there are adequate facilities for medial examination—X-ray and so forth—in some countries, why could it not take place in those countries? And, in tie case of countries where it was not possible to have such an examination, why could not other steps be taken to ensure that such people with diseases do not enter this country?

LORD TAYLOR

My Lords, I think that the noble Lord has a point there, and I accept at once that it would be possible to have reliable medical examinations in the old Commonwealth countries. But I would a your Lordships to think on the idea that such a principle should work both ways: if we are demanding that everybody coming in here should be medically examined then all of us going abroad, equally, should he medically examined.

SEVERAL NOBLE LORDS: Why not?

LORD TAYLOR

My Lords, I do not think this is necessary in every case, and think we must have a little common sense about this. Let medical examination be voluntarily offered to people who are coming in. We know that there are certain types of people who are liable to have certain types of infection. Let it be voluntarily explained to them what the problems are; let the service be offered, and let them be told that they can be treated and made better while they are here. Further than that I should not like to go.

LORD ROYLE

My Lords, relating to the first part of the noble Lord's Question, would my noble friend agree that if separate registers were kept it would be completely against the spirit of integration?

LORD TAYLOR

I would entirely agree, my Lords.

Loan COLWYN

May I thank the noble Lord very much indeed. There is one point about which I made a very slight mistake. May I give Her Majesty's Government notice that I intend to put down a Motion on this subject later on, probably after Christmas?