HL Deb 20 November 1963 vol 253 cc355-7

3.52 p.m.

VISCOUNT BLAKENHAM

My Lords, may I, with permission, make a statement which I understand has been made in another place.

The Government have considered the situation arising from the claim for increased pay and improved working conditions for the operating staff of the London Transport Board's road services, and the difficulties the Board are facing in the manning of these services. The Government have decided that there is a need for a comprehensive review of pay and conditions in the light of the problems facing public road transport in the London area.

For this purpose my right honourable friends the Ministers of Transport and of Labour are jointly appointing a Committee of Inquiry. The terms of reference are: To review the pay and conditions of employment of the drivers and conductors of the London Transport Board's road services in the light of the Board's manpower requirements for those services, the Board's statutory responsibilities, the working and operating conditions in London traffic, and the likely repercussions of any changes on other employments paying due regard to the possibilities of increasing the efficiency of London Transport's road services and to the considerations affecting national economic growth; and to report. I am glad to say that Professor E. H. Phelps Brown has agreed to act as Chairman of the Committee, and it is hoped to announce the names of the other members shortly.

The London Transport Board and the Transport and General Workers' Union have been informed of the Committee's appointment.

My right honourable friends the Ministers of Transport and of Labour want the Committee to open their inquiries at a very early date and to complete them as soon as the scope of their remit allows. This being so, the Government expect that there will in the meantime be a return to normal working.

LORD LINDGREN

My Lords, are we to assume from the Minister's statement that this is a departure from the normal practice of employer and employee determining the conditions under which the workers within an industry will operate? With the greatest respect to Professor Brown, he is not likely even at the end of the inquiry to know as much about rates of pay and working conditions in the road haulage industry as London Transport and its personnel department know at the present time.

VISCOUNT BLAKENHAM

I think, as the noble Lord knows, it is a well-established practice, certainly in the Ministry of Labour and also in the Ministry of Transport, to set up Committees of Inquiry when there are particular situations and particular difficulties such as exist at the moment.

LORD LINDGREN

Is this, in fact, Government interference in the normal negotiations between trade unions and employer?

VISCOUNT BLAKENHAM

It is no more than has happened on a number of previous occasions where particular problems—and London Transport have particular problems—merit a special inquiry.

LORD CHAMPION

My Lords, might I ask the noble Viscount whether this comes as a result of any request by the trade unions or the Transport Board who are concerned in this vital matter? It seems to me that a serious attempt should first be made to settle these matters by negotiation, before embarking on a Committee of Inquiry. I agree with my noble friend that these are matters clearly within the competence of a negotiating body.

VISCOUNT BLAKENHAM

As I explained to the House, the Board and the Transport and General Workers Union have been informed of the decision to appoint this Committee. I think it should be clear from the statement I made that these are very difficult and complex issues, and in the Government's view the best way of dealing with them will be by the appointment of an independent inquiry of this sort.

LORD MORRISON OF LAMBETH

My Lords, can the noble Viscount say whether the Board and the Union have agreed to the appointment of the Committee? And is there any understanding as to whether or not the existing restrictions on overtime and other matters which are now obtaining will be suspended pending the inquiry of the Committee, or is that still an open matter?

VISCOUNT BLAKENHAM

This is an open matter; but, as I said in my statement, the Government do expect that there will be a return in the meantime to normal working. The answer to the first part of the noble Lord's question is that, so far as I know, both the Union and the Board accept the fact that the Government have set up this inquiry.

LORD OGMORE

My Lords, may I ask the noble Viscount whether the Government propose to put on the Board a member who is well aware of the conditions and needs of the users of the services, particularly of the people who have to wait a very long time in the rain for a bus?

VISCOUNT BLAKENHAM

I will certainly see that my right honourable friend has the benefit of the noble Lord's observation.