§ LORD BOSSOMMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what steps are being taken to introduce dimensional co-ordination in the building industry, and to promote prefabricated methods of construction.]
THE MINISTER OF STATE, HOME OFFICE (EARL JELLICOE)My Lords, my right honourable friend the Minister 712 of Public Building and Works published in February a first statement on dimensional co-ordination for the industrialised building by public authorities of houses, schools, hospitals and offices; and it will be followed by others. We hope that these statements will stimulate progress in the adoption of dimensional co-ordination both as regards industrialised building and traditional building.
My right honourable friend's Directorate General of Research and Development is also promoting the widest possible application of existing techniques of industrialised building, and is fostering the growth of new systems which should be applicable to a wide range of buildings. In all its work the Directorate General is co-operating closely with the construction industries and the associated professions.
§ LORD BOSSOMMy Lords, may I thank my noble friend for that Answer. But may I inquire whether he is aware that if these principles were taken up consistently and persistently they could make a reduction in our entire national building bill in the neighbourhood of 5 per cent. or more? Other countries are now using them, and I should like to ask my noble friend to see that every possible effort is made that England gets the benefit of the science that is being practised elsewhere.
EARL JELLICOEI entirely agree with my noble friend that there are great gains to be won in this field. I think that my right honourable friend the Minister of Housing and Local Government is shortly to publish a White Paper on the housing situation, and that will include, I think, a pithy and pregnant paragraph to this effect. I would also agree that we should keep fully abreast of the best modern techniques in this matter; and as my noble friend is doubtless aware, the building industry has recently taken steps in one form or another to intoduce into this country certain of the best foreign practices in this general field. But, that said, I would claim on behalf of the industry that in this whole field of industrialised building, especially the lighter industrialised building, which affects schools, for example, we have been in the vanguard of progress.
§ EARL ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHMy Lords, may I ask whether it is not fairly apparent that the White Paper has been through a long period of pregnancy—a good many years?
EARL JELLICOEI think there has been a considerable process of gestation, but it will doubtless be all the better for that.
§ LORD LATHAMMy Lords, could the noble Earl say whether the Minister of Works is aware of dimensional coordination?
EARL JELLICOEMy Lords, I was in fact answering on behalf of my right honourable friend the Minister of Public Building and Works. I can assure the noble Lord that he is entirely aware of the problems and of the progress which can be won in this field.
§ LORD CONESFORDMy Lords, does "dimensional co-ordination" mean "standard sizes"?
LORD HAWKEMy Lords, will my noble friend seek out and read the speech of the chairman of the largest brick-makers in the country, delivered at their annual general meeting, from which it appears that brick-makers, at all events, think that the sizes which we are standardising may not be correct?
EARL JELLICOEMy Lords, I am aware of the speech to which my noble friend has drawn your Lordships' attention. I think there is, in fact, a slight difference of opinion in this matter; but some experts believe that there will be no difficulty whatsoever in fitting the British brick, whether it is the Welsh and English brick, or the Northern British and Scottish brick, to the proposed system.
§ LORD CONESFORDMy Lords, may I have an answer to my Question?
EARL JELLICOEMy Lords, I think that the answer is probably "Yes"; but, quite frankly, I do not know.
BARONESS HORSHBRUGHMy Lords, might I ask, then, if the Minister does not quite know, whether this title has been given to the White Paper in order 714 that the public cannot know what is going on and, therefore, take an interest and express their opinions?
LORD HAWKEMy Lords, I thank my noble friend for his reply to my supplementary question, but will he bear in mind that the chairman whose speech we are dealing with is chairman of an organisation which produces a very large proportion of bricks in this country? That being so, surely it would seem more economic that the other standards should come to him, rather than that he should go to the others.
EARL JELLICOEMy Lords, I am not aware that there is any real reason why that should be so, but it is certainly very important that the brick-making industry as a whole should bend their minds to the question of how best to integrate their efforts with what progress is being made in this field.
§ LORD BOSSOMMy Lords, while further thanking my noble friend for the consideration he has given to this very important subject, is he aware that a model building built entirely of coordinated and prefabricated units was built on the Thames Embankment? Is he further aware that it was built with ordinary bricks and then fitted in with everything else? Is he further aware that the co-ordination should apply not only to special types of building, but to all types of building, as is being done in other countries?
EARL JELLICOEMy Lords, I am not aware of all the matters my noble friend has brought to my attention, but I am aware of most of them.