§ EARL ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHMy Lords, may I at this point raise one or two questions on Business? First of all, may I ask what are the Government's exact intentions now with regard to the Offices, Shops and Railway Premises Bill?
§ VISCOUNT HAILSHAMMy Lords, I was very disappointed, of course, when the debate had to be adjourned yesterday and I take it that other noble Lords besides myself must have shared this feeling. I think that a question of this kind could appropriately be dealt with through the usual channels. If any difficulty arises, of course, I am always available to the noble Earl. But I do not conceal the fact that the loss of yesterday's Business has disconcerted me a little, and I would hope that we could arrive at some mutually convenient arrangement.
§ EARL ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHMy Lords, I can see nothing that happened last night that would call for the necessity of the Motion that was made to adjourn the debate on this Bill, especially in view of certain things that were said. But the Government want this 1186 Bill, we understand. Is that so? I have been told so before. The workers in industry want the Bill urgently, and I understood that the intention was to have the conclusions of this House referred to another place in time for the Bill to be included in to-morrow's Royal Commission. I just do not understand what could have led the Government to take such actions as they took yesterday.
§ VISCOUNT HAILSHAMMy Lords, I do not want to enter into any recriminations about what happened last night. So far as I am aware, it was not the intention of the Government to include the Bill in the Royal Commission. It is quite true that the Government want all their programme completed and, with a certain amount of good will, no doubt we can achieve that.
§ LORD MORRISON OF LAMBETHMy Lords, cannot we possibly settle all this now? I understand from my noble friend Lord Latham that all that remains to be considered in the Bill will occupy about half an hour. Surely this could be included—it is too late presumably for to-day—but in to-morrow's Business. I should think that, with this understanding, the noble Viscount could have given a favourable answer, because everybody wants the Bill through. I hope that the Government want it to go through. Certainly the trade unions concerned would like it through. I should have thought that, on an understanding of that sort, we could easily have it added to the Business for to-morrow.
§ VISCOUNT HAILSHAMMy Lords, I think on the whole that it is better, with respect, to deal with the Business of the House through the usual channels, and I would prefer to deal in that way with this and other matters, but I do not myself believe—I have had no previous notice of this—that any great public disservice would be achieved by considering it in connection with the whole programme of the House, so as to suit the convenience of all noble Lords.
§ LORD LINDGRENMy Lords, can we be assured that the noble Viscount's association with the rattle earlier in the day had no effect on his conduct last evening?
§ EARL ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHMy Lords, in view of the 1187 point at which we left any further discussion with regard to the remaining Business on the Government's London Government Bill, I would ask whether the noble Viscount is aware that I have taken the necessary steps, as I told him I would, to consider the business of the day and for us to do as much as we can reasonably be expected to do of the Bill to-day. Subject to only one thing, there is no reason at all, from what I can see of the work to be done—the remaining portion of Schedule 1 and Schedules 2 and 3—why it cannot be completed provided that we can be assured that the House will close at 10.30 notwithstanding the Business which is to be inserted to-day in between the discussions, and after due provision for dinner for the House.
§ VISCOUNT HAILSHAMMy Lords, I can assure the noble Earl that Members on this side of the House enjoy their dinners every bit as much as Members opposite. If the noble Earl will keep in touch with me from time to time, I do not think that there will be any difficulty on that score. If I may venture respectfully to make a suggestion, if the noble Earl who leads the Opposition with such skill feels at any time that matters or arrangements can be improved in any way, or facilitated in any way, I hope to be available, as much as could be expected of any Leader of the House, and if he would approach me, either across the Floor or preferably outside the Chamber, so as not to disturb Business, I will do what I can to help.
§ EARL ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHMy Lords, I am much obliged. I am not quite sure whether the suggestion I made as to the timing to-day is accepted.
§ VISCOUNT HAILSHAMMy Lords, it is always a little difficult to take in what is in a slightly complicated sentence. I have taken the precaution of getting a record of what was said at the end of proceedings earlier this morning, and it seems to me that there was a new note of friendliness between my noble and learned friend and the noble Earl, and I was in no doubt that they were going to co-operate together. If I can be of any assistance to help this happen, I will gladly do so.
§ EARL ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHMy Lords, I have only one other point to raise upon Business, which I think can perhaps be left to further discussions between the noble Viscount the Leader of the House and myself, but of which the House should be aware. I am very concerned at the amount of Business proposed to be got through in one day concerning both housing and town planning. This is a very serious proposition. Moreover, because of the immense changes which are to take place in the administration of the provisions for education in Greater London under the Bill, we do not see how we can hope to get right through all this in the one day which has been allocated to education. Perhaps we can have further discussions on this.
§ VISCOUNT HAILSHAMMy Lords, of course we can have further discussions, and there is nothing I should welcome more. But the noble Earl will forgive me for saying this—without the slightest desire to cause offence to anybody. My one desire, and I know it is the desire of my colleagues, is to use this House for the purpose for which it is best suited—namely, for full discussion of controversial legislation. But that necessarily involves a certain self-denial on both sides of the House. Certain methods which are appropriate enough in another place, with a different tradition and a different atmosphere, are sometimes quite inappropriate here. Although I have been a Member of this House for only about thirteen years, I have had to learn that some of the things we learned in another place have to be forgotten here.
§ EARL ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHMy Lords, I have been in this House long enough to learn something of that attitude, too. On the other hand, when we are faced with very important unmandated legislation such as we are faced with in this Bill, it is seemingly curious to us that the only real speeches we have had—there have been hardly any others—are those from interested Members who want important local area alterations, who move Amendments accordingly and vote on them. For the rest, on the Government side, the ordinary Members seem to be under some constraint of silence.
§ VISCOUNT HAILSHAMMy Lords, I can assure the House that if I did attempt to put my supporters under any constraint of silence it would only induce them to talk.
§ EARL ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHMy Lords, perhaps they would take a little more interest and speak for themselves if Cabinet Ministers would show a little more interest in the debate.
§ VISCOUNT HAILSHAMMy Lords, I do not think the noble Earl can complain of that. My noble and learned friend on the Woolsack has been taking a most lively interest in the Bill, and is in fact in charge of it. I think it is not for the benefit of the service of the House to insist that those who hold junior office, some of whom have not had the advantage of service in the other place, should not be given responsible work; and I should hope that both sides of the House would welcome it when they are.