HL Deb 24 July 1963 vol 252 cc715-21

3.42 p.m.

THE JOINT PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY, MINISTRY OF AGRICULTURE, FISHERIES AND FOOD (LORD ST. OSWALD)

My Lords, may I, with the permission of the House, make a statement similar to that which my right honourable friend is making in another place? If I may, I will use his own words:

"In his statement on the Government's forestry policy in July, 1958, my predecessor said that the size of subsequent Forestry Commission programmes, and the structure of grants to private woodland owners, would be reviewed in five years' time. This review has now been held and the Government have reached the following conclusions on it.

"Over the next decade, from 1964 to 1973, the Forestry Commission will aim at planting a further 450,000 acres. They will continue to concentrate on acquiring land in the upland areas, particularly in Scotland and Wales; where population is declining and where the expansion of forestry can bring considerable social and employment benefits. The Commission will be able to acquire land in other areas where there are good economic reasons or where planting can maintain or improve the beauty of the landscape. The planting programme for each year, and its distribution between the three countries, will be determined from time to time by the forestry Ministers.

"The Commission, in preparing their future programmes, will bear in mind the need, wherever possible, to provide public access and recreation, and will devote more attention to increasing the beauty of the landscape.

"We propose to make no change in the structure of the present grants to private woodland owners. Under our existing arrangements the level of grants is examined every three years to take account of changes in costs and receipts. The latest of these reviews is in progress at the moment.

"The Government welcome the increasing acreage of timber planted by private owners. The tradition of skill and knowledge which has been built up and the research which has been carried out in private forests has been of great benefit to the nation. The continuation of the grants to the private woodlands confirms the Government's confidence in private forestry and provides support for its continued place in our national forest policy.

"Our policy of steady expansion in both public and private forestry means that a growing volume of home-produced timber will be coming on to the market, to the benefit of our balance of payments. As the volume increases, so it will become more clearly necessary for the Commission, the private interests and the trade to pay greater attention to the whole problem of the marketing and utilisation of homegrown timber. Moreover, the steady expansion in home production will give the timber trade confidence to develop their plans for handling home-produced timber as it comes forward."

My Lords, That is the statement.

LORD WISE

My Lords, before I raise one or two points upon the interesting statement which the Minister has made to the House, may I say one word in connection with another matter? In the last few minutes the outgoing Chairman of the Forestry Commission and the incoming Chairman have entered the House. I want to pay a compliment to the outgoing Chairman, the noble Earl, Lord Radnor, for the excellent work he has been able to do over a period of many years in regard to forestry in this country. May I say a word of welcome to the incoming Chairman, and hope that that he will have many years of interesting and excellent work before him?

With regard to the statement which has been made, I notice that the new period of the Forestry Commission has now been extended from five years up to ten years. I gather that in regard to the acquisition of land activity is not to be restricted to one particular country, but is to be more adaptable to Wales and Scotland. I am sure that anything which can bring prosperity to either of those countries will be very welcome indeed.

As to the question of the landscape, I do not think the Forestry Commission have been guilty in any particular of upsetting the landscape of this country. There are many other matters which have been a disadvantage to the amenities of the countryside, and I am certain that the Forestry Commission will not do anything which has a detrimental effect. In connection with the examination of costs and receipts which is now taking place, I take it that when the review has been completed some announcement will be made as regards the alterations, if necessary. It seems to me that there must be alterations year by year because of the unlucky habit of costs exceeding receipts. As to the question of the growing volume of home-grown products, it is within my knowledge that additional means of distribution are now arising very rapidly, and the processing of timber and timber products is becoming a great industry here in Britain. I think this statement will be welcomed by all who are interested in forestry, and I commend it.

THE EARL OF MANSFIELD

My Lords, my first words must be to endorse most heartily what the noble Lord, Lord Wise, has said about the noble Earl, Lord Radnor. Not only has he been extremely efficient, but also he has restored good relations between the Commission and private owners which his predecessor had left in a most unsatisfactory state. The important thing for the Government to realise is that it is no use expecting the private owner to go on planting to the extent he has been doing for the past few years unless he is given some assurance that he is, or, more probably, his descendants are, going to get a market for the timber they are producing.

That matter is still a matter of very great anxiety to all private owners, who are continuing to plant under conditions which mean that, although we are getting, admittedly, a generous grant in the vast majority of cases, that grant does not cover the cost of planting and maintenance. The result is that we are going on planting on trust in the hope and expectation that we shall not be let down by successive Governments. But there must be a market found in this country for our own timber if the industry is to flourish and if it is going to become, as it should, one of our greatest national industries, and so far as Scotland is concerned, the only one which can restore a large measure of prosperity to the Highlands.

We must, therefore, have some form of guaranteed market. Whether that market is by way of guaranteed quotas (and it must be remembered that we import scores of millions of pounds worth of timber every year), by our own industries having to guarantee to take some of our products, or by tariffs, is a matter for negotiation. But something of the sort must be done or the private owner will definitely become discouraged. Also, further encouragement must be given to the setting up of sonic kind of mill for the utilisation of the minor products in the centre of Scotland. We have one at Fort William and there is another in South Wales. In the centre of Scotland there is a vast amount of timber being produced, but at the present time all the small stuff will go to waste for lack of something to turn it into something useful.

LORD SOMERS

My Lords, I wonder whether my noble friend could tell the House what percentage of the new acreage to be planted by the Commission is to be devoted to hardwood, and what percentage to softwood.

THE DUKE OF BUCCLEUCH AND QUEENSBERRY

My Lords, may I also support the tribute to the noble Earl, Lord Radnor, for the excellent work that he has done for the Forestry Commission and forestry in general in the United Kingdom; and also support the greeting to his successor, the noble Earl, Lord Waldegrave? May I, as a representative of forestry, thank my noble friend for his statement to-day—it has been awaited with anxiety among foresters? And may I ask for an assurance that the Government will continue to encourage a young and growing industry in their endeavour to grow more and better timber in spite of very severe competition and increasing costs?

THE DUKE OF ATHOLL

My Lords, I, too, should like to thank my noble friend for his statement. I think he said that the Forestry Commission were going to encourage, or allow increased access by the public to the woods. I welcome this step, but I would ask him whether he will ask his right honourable friend to give due publicity with all means at his disposal, to the fire danger, which is very great at certain times of the year. I feel that, with the public having increased access, this danger is bound to be greater than ever before.

LORD HENLEY

My Lords, from these Benches we welcome this general statement of good will towards forestry, but there is one question I should like to put the noble Lord; that is, whether the Government feel that they can maintain this level of planning. I rather have the impression it is becoming increasingly difficult to get the land, and I should welcome a word from the noble Lord on this aspect.

LORD ST. OSWALD

My Lords, I am most grateful for the welcome which has been given to this statement. I will answer as many as possible of the questions that were put to me, while trying not to repeat myself. The noble Lord, Lord Wise, asked why ten years? I do not think there is anything new in this; it is simply that as a five-year period comes to an end the policy for the next five years is announced. I think that is all that has happened in this case. I am most grateful to him for his remarks about the conscientiousness of the Forestry Commission in protecting and looking after landscapes. I have had a certain amount to do in the short time I have had this responsibility in looking at cases where there was some dispute about an alteration of landscape, and I have become very aware of how strongly the Commission feel that, if they are to alter a landscape in any way at all, it must be by improvement. In answer to another point, I can assure the noble Lord that an announcement will be made when the present triennial review is completed. I cannot, I am afraid, tell him exactly when that will be; but it will be very shortly.

My noble friend Lord Mansfield asked what assurance we could give of a future market for forestry products and for the private woodland owner. My noble friend is interested in Scotland, and he will be aware of what has been done at Fort William in approving the establishment of the pulp mill there, with an investment of £10 million of public money in the form of a loan. This, we think, will provide—and I believe that most private woodland owners in Scotland accept this—a very helpful factor in providing a future market for the wood. It will continuously utilise 8 million hoppus feet of Scottish softwood and 4 million hoppus feet of hardwood, some of which will, in fact, have to come from overseas. But it will, of course, provide employment for a great many people; 1,200 in the factory alone; and even more than that, indirectly in the ancillary industries. I think that my words in the statement gave the assurance to private woodland owners that the Government are determined to look after their interests. I said, and I beg the leave of the House to repeat the words: The continuation of the grants to private woodlands confirms the Government's confidence in private forestry and provides support for its continued place in our national forest policy. Those words will, I hope, be read as being significant, and they are certainly intended to be. My noble friend the Duke of Buccleuch and Queensberry also hoped that we should encourage private woodland owners and forestry in general, and I trust that the answer I have given to my noble friend Lord Mansfield will satisfy him also.

My noble friend the Duke of Atholl asked that suitable publicity should be given to the fire danger. This is, of course, a danger which has to be balanced against the desire of the Forestry Commission to see that, where possible, everybody is allowed to enjoy the pleasures of Forestry Commission land. This sometimes presents a difficult problem. I had to answer a Parliamentary Question on it the other day. It is something which is continually arising., and I am glad that my noble friend has drawn attention to the problem. We and the Commission are certainly very much aware of both the danger from fire and the desirability of public access.

The noble Lord, Lord Henley, asked a question which I am afraid, because of my execrable handwriting, I cannot read; but I shall be delighted to answer him if I can. I think he asked whether we thought we could maintain a market at the present level of planning.

LORD HENLEY

I did not ask that. What I asked was whether the noble Lord thought the Government could maintain the level of planning they are now proposing, in view of the difficulty of getting suitable land.

LORD ST. OSWALD

In fact there has been a small reduction in the Commission's plans for planting in the next five years. That is as a result of the difficulty occasionally encountered of obtaining land for planting. We think that planting should continue at a rate of 80,000 acres a year as between the Forestry Commission's land and private woodland.