HL Deb 18 July 1963 vol 252 cc387-9

7.38 p.m.

Report of Amendments received (according to Order).

Clause 1 [Extension of local authority powers to pay expenses incurred in attending conferences and meetings]:

VISCOUNT COLVILLE OF CULROSS moved, after subsection (2), to insert: (3) For the purposes of the said sections 267 and 161 a loss of earnings necessarily suffered by a member of a local authority or a committee of a local authority for the purpose of enabling him to attend a conference or meeting, being earnings which he would otherwise have made, shall be treated as an expense incurred by him in attending that conference or meeting.

The noble Viscount said: My Lords, this Amendment relates to a small point in this Bill, but I think one of a certain amount of importance. It deals with the sort of expenses which will be allowable to a member of a local authority if he goes to one of the conferences provided for under the existing law or the sort of conference which is covered by this Bill. At the moment, all reasonable expenses will be repaid to him, or can be repaid by his authority, if they think fit, but there are two separate sections which deal with this in the existing law. Some doubt has arisen about the difference of the wording of those two sections: whether or not it would be possible to pay him for the earnings he has lost through attending the conference.

The Amendment is drafted in order to make it quite clear that such loss of earnings during the time that he is at a conference is the kind of thing which can be repaid to him by his local authority as part of the ordinary expenses, both under this Bill and under the existing law. I think this would be generally considered a fair thing to provide for, and that is what this Amendment does. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 2, line 16, at end insert the said subsection.—(Viscount Colville of Culross.)

LORD CHAMPION

My Lords, I should only like to ask the noble Viscount whether the words "loss of earnings" are anywhere defined? Loss of earnings can cover merely the day wage of a man, and it might also cover the man who might be expected to earn on piece-work rates. I wonder whether this is provided for anywhere in the section to which he refers. I myself cannot remember whether it is or not.

VISCOUNT COLVILLE OF CULROSS

My Lords, there is a definition of loss of earnings in Section 112(1) of the Local Government Act, 1948, but I do not think it answers the noble Lord's Question, because it says … loss of earnings which he would otherwise have made". Whether this does or does not take into account piece-work, I honestly do not know. I will do my best to find out for the noble Lord. There is another stage of this Bill, and if there is something which should be done to this Bill I will see that it is done.

LORD CHAMPION

I thank the noble Viscount very much.

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD HASTINGS

My Lords, this Amendment is consequential on the noble Viscount's previous Amendment which we have just passed and is a substitution for his Amendment No. 2, which he has not moved. Subsection (3) of Clause 1 as it stands applies to Section 114(3) the new power to pay expenses. But the noble Lord's previous Amendment extends the power to pay expenses to make clear that it covers also payments in respect of loss of earnings, and this requires a matching Amendment to Section 114(3) to provide that payment in respect of loss of earnings under the new power shall also be subject to the limitation in the general code on members' expenses. That is what the present Amendment provides, and it possibly answers the question of the noble Lord, Lord Champion, on the other Amendment. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 2, line 27, leave out from ("and") to ("in") and insert ("the said subsection (3) shall have effect as if any reference therein to expenses incurred included a reference to any loss of earnings suffered which, by virtue of the last foregoing subsection, is to be treated as an expense incurred and,").—(Lord Hastings.)

VISCOUNT COLVILLE OF CULROSS

My Lords, I am glad to be able to say that I accept the Amendment.

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 8 [Power to suspend annual provision for repayment of, and to borrow for payment of interest on, certain borrowed moneys]:

VISCOUNT COLVILLE OF CULROSS

My Lords, this Amendment is purely to correct a grammatical error in the Bill as it now stands. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 6, line 12, leave out ("constitute") and insert ("constitutes").—(Viscount Colville of Culross.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.