WEIGHTS AND MEASURES BILL (Hansard, 9 July 1963)

§ THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS (THE EARL OF DUNDEE)
My Lords, I have it in command from Her Majesty the Queen to signify to the House that Her Majesty, having been informed of the purport of the Weights and Measures Bill, has consented to place Her Majesty's interest, so far as it is concerned on behalf of the Crown, at the disposal of Parliament for the purposes of the Bill.

§ THE MINISTER OF STATE, BOARD OF TRADE (LORD DERWENT)
My Lords, I beg to move that this Bill be read a third time.

§ LORD DERWENT
My Lords, this is a drafting Amendment to clarify an earlier Government Amendment. There is no alteration of any substance. I beg to move.

§ LORD STONHAM
My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Derwent, that in the drafting sense his present Amend 1294 ment is better than the one which your Lordships accepted last week. But it is only just as good as a similar Amendment which I moved on the Committee stage and which the Government did not then accept. So, fortunately, we are now back at the point that I had hoped to reach in the Committee stage after a great deal of effort. But I should like to express my thanks to the noble Lord and to the Government for this redrafting, which meets the essential point we were after: that sales of milk in vending machines will be continuous and will not end in two years' time, as would otherwise have been the case.
There is one other point which he did not mention—namely, the fact that the sale is now tied to the 6d. coin on which I largely based my case last week. I think that is quite satisfactory, because if the carton of milk became so small as to be derisory at 6d. the wholesale cost of milk would have to be increased by about one-third, which I hope is an unlikely contingency. Therefore, this should endure for a good time; it will be of great convenience to consumers and of very great help to the farming community. I am glad that in this matter the Government have at last trod the path of wisdom.

§ LORD DERWENT
My Lords, in moving that this Bill do now pass, I should like to thank noble Lords on all sides of the House for the trouble they have taken over this Bill. During the course of its passage through this House it has been considerably improved. There is no doubt that much of the improvement has been due to the arguments of the noble Lord, Lord Stonham, and his noble colleagues in explaining the points in detail and, in some cases, to their having been successful.
The Government have repeatedly been accused of being stubborn while this Bill has been going through this House and I have been accused of not listening to arguments. It may be of interest to your Lordships to note that in this House the Bill has been amended on seventeen points, and I am not including purely drafting Amendments. Three of these Amendments were Opposition Amendments accepted by the Government; 6 were Government Amendments devised to meet points raised by the 1295 Opposition; 2 were Government Amendments in accordance with undertakings in the other place. And there was one fairly large drafting point consequential on an Amendment in the other place. So the large majority of Amendments appear to have been made because I listened to the arguments made opposite. Five are Amendments initiated by the Government on matters which had not been previously raised in debate at all in either House. May I repeat, on behalf of my noble friend Lord Ferrers, my thanks to all your Lordships for having improved this Bill. I beg to move that the Bill do now pass.

§ LORD STONHAM
My Lords, in supporting the Motion that the Bill do now pass, I should like to thank the noble Lord, Lord Derwent, for his very kind words about my noble friends. We in turn thank him for his courtesy and consideration during the various stages of the Bill. He mentioned the stubbornness of the Government, and obviously that was rather more than equalled by the resourcefulness of the Opposition. It is good to think that in so many cases the stubbornness eventually yielded to reason. I recall, as will the noble Earl, Lord Dundee, that we started on this Bill two years ago, and the alterations which were then made were very much more numerous than seventeen. I should think that over the whole Bill there were at least 100 Amendments accepted in both Houses, and we have spent even more time on it than has been spent on the London Government Bill.
I think this is a good Bill. It has been considerably improved since we first started. It will afford a considerable measure of consumer protection, and I think it will help the honest traders and discourage the shifty ones. Therefore, it will be of considerable value. A very great deal of the effectiveness of this Bill will, of course, depend on the efficiency with which the regulations are drafted and the speed with which they are put into effect. That will be the main operative factor and value of the Bill, and we shall watch it carefully. Furthermore, a very great deal will depend on the Consumer Council, and it is obvious that that Council will have to have a very different 1296 standard of staffing and financing if it is going to exercise the influence that I hope it eventually will exercise. My Lords, as I have said, this is a good Bill, which has repaid the effort that has been put into it on all sides of the House, and I wish it well.