§ 2.40 p.m.
§ LORD PEDDIEMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they consider the increasing practice of some newspapers buying for publication the purported memoirs or life stories of criminals, prostitutes, and other persons of undesirable notoriety should be referred to the Press Council as a subject on which, in the public interest, the Council should express its opinion.]
§ THE LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL AND MINISTER FOR SCIENCE (VISCOUNT HAILSHAM)My Lords, the Press Council is in process of reconstituting itself with a lay chairman and a proportion of lay members and wider terms of reference. While I cannot anticipate their approach to matters such as the noble Lord has raised, the new body may well consider this an appropriate subject on which to express an opinion. The Government deplore the publication in the Press of memoirs which lend glamour to crime, or to vice, I might add, and cater for an unhealthy interest in them. They would welcome any consideration that the Press Council felt able to give to the matter.
§ LORD PEDDIEMy Lords, I thank the noble Viscount for his reply and particularly for his reference to the fact that this is an appropriate subject for consideration by the Press Council. I would ask whether he believes it is wrong in principle as well as in law to permit financial gain to be secured from criminal or immoral activities.
§ VISCOUNT HAILSHAMMy Lords, I do not know about its being wrong in law. This is a very wide proposition. But I have, as the noble Lord will probably remember, twice deplored this particular practice in connection with the publication of memoirs; and I noticed, or rather I heard, the Leader of the Opposition in another place give expression to views of a similar kind.
§ LORD LUCAS OF CHILWORTHMy Lords, may I ask Her Majesty's Government whether the new terms of reference for the Press Council will include their being able to recommend to Her Majesty's Government that this kind of practice should be made illegal?
§ VISCOUNT HAILSHAMMy Lords, I do not know offhand what the terms of reference will be; it is a matter for the Press itself. But I have no doubt that if they came to the conclusion that there was any action which Her Majesty's Government could usefully take they would find means to let us know.
LORD SALTOUNMy Lords, may I ask whether there is any evidence of public morals having suffered any damage from the publication of the memoirs of Harriet Wilson?
§ VISCOUNT HAILSHAMMy Lords, I think I should require notice of that question.
§ LORD FERRIERMy Lords, arising out of the Question of the noble Lord, Lord Peddie, and the noble Viscount's Answer, has the attention of the Government been drawn to the amazement and widespread disgust at the amount and tone of matter that the B.B.C. has been providing to its unfortunate news readers to disseminate in respect of the Ward case?
§ VISCOUNT HAILSHAMMy Lords, I think I require notice of that, too. I am afraid that my ability to 999 listen to the B.B.C. has been greatly curtailed by the extent of my public duties.
§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILLMy Lords, I would ask the noble Viscount, as an historian, whether he would say that the lives of the great prostitutes in history are more immoral than those of the great killers of men.
§ VISCOUNT HAILSHAMMy Lords, I think that I should also require notice of that question.
§ LORD MORRISON OF LAMBETHMy Lords, is it not a bit rough of the noble Viscount to say that he has not time to look or listen to the B.B.C. disseminations? I, and millions of others, listened recently to the noble Viscount on B.B.C., and I was greatly interested. The only thing was that I had to turn the knob down a little because it got a bit too loud.
§ VISCOUNT HAILSHAMMy Lords, the noble Lord must really learn a little more about science and technology. The volume which is emitted bears no relation to the volume of the voice. It is a purely technical matter.
§ LORD FRANCIS-WILLIAMSMy Lords, can the noble Viscount give the House any assurance that the very large sums which are paid by newspapers to criminals, prostitutes, adulterers and others for their memoirs, the amounts they receive in gain for their confessions, are not allowed to stand as a capital gain for the purpose of tax so that they do not benefit by the whole amount?
§ VISCOUNT HAILSHAMMy Lords, I am not at all sure, but I will take advice about that.
§ LORD LUCAS OF CHILWORTHMy Lords, would the noble Viscount not agree that such a remuneration would come under the heading of casual profit?
§ VISCOUNT HAILSHAMMy Lords, I am not at all sure about that, either. There is a doctrine in tax law that if a person practises a profession once, the gain is none the less professional earnings and not a casual profit.
§ LORD FRANCIS-WILLIAMSMy Lords, may I put this point to the noble Viscount? Sometimes these monies are 1000 not regarded as professional earnings, because these people are not getting any money from the exercise of their criminal profession but from the alleged exercise of their journalistic ability, usually with the aid of a ghost writer, in telling the public about the results of their criminal or other activities.
§ VISCOUNT HAILSHAMMy Lords, I believe that the tax inspector takes the view that if one practises journalism once that makes one a journalist and the fee is not casual profit but professional earnings. But if the noble Lord wants a considered answer on this point he will have to put down a Question.