§ VISCOUNT MASSEREENE AND FERRARDMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the second Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether it is the policy of the Forestry Commission to debar persons on horses access to the roads through their woodlands, and, if so, why.]
THE JOINT PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY, MINISTRY OF AGRICULTURE, FISHERIES AND FOOD (LORD ST. OSWALD)My Lords, it is the Forestry Commission's policy to allow access to their woodlands by persons on foot or mounted, except where there are good reasons to restrict such access. For example, they may have to restrict access when there is a high fire risk or where it would prejudice the interests of lessors, neighbours or tenants. Unfortunately, it is also sometimes necessary to restrict riding in forests where grass roads, made for timber extraction, may suffer serious damage in wet weather.
§ VISCOUNT MASSEREENE AND FERRARDMy Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his Answer. Is the noble Lord aware that horses cannot possibly cause the same damage as heavy tractors on grass rides? Is he also aware that people on horses do not usually smoke. And, further, as riding has now become far more popular owing to the overcrowding on the motor roads, may I ask the noble Lord whether he will intimate to the Forestry Commission that in future they should take a more enlightened view of people on horses riding through their woodlands?
LORD ST. OSWALDMy Lords, I know of absolutely nothing that prevents horsemen from smoking while riding; nor do I know of anything that prevents them from "lighting up" when alight- 646 ing from their horses, to give either themselves or their horses a rest. Furthermore, my noble friend is wrong in suggesting that horses cannot damage wet grass roads so as to prevent heavy lorries from operating on those roads or to become bogged in them.
§ LORD SHACKLETONMy Lords, will the noble Lord give some indication as to how widespread these restrictions are, and whether they are applied specifically to horsemen but not to people on foot?
LORD ST. OSWALDNo, my Lords, they are certainly not restrictions permanently applied. So far as I know, they are restrictions brought in according to the state of the weather and, therefore, according to the damage which the weather plus people represent to the forests in one way or another, in respect to either fire or damaging roads and making it impossible to extract timber. Generally speaking—I am not sure that I can say "exclusively"—when restriction is put on in a certain season of the year it is put on for everybody either on horse or on foot.
§ VISCOUNT MASSEREENE AND FERRARDMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether he is aware that in certain forests I know which are owned by the Commission they do bar access to horses all the year round, but not to pedestrians?
LORD ST. OSWALDMy Lords, I do not know how many forests my noble friend owns, but, knowing something of his squirearchal responsibilities in Kent, I inquired whether anything was known of any difficulties in Kingswood. I was told that no such difficulties had been reported to the Forestry Commission in that area.
§ VISCOUNT MASSEREENE AND FERRARDMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that in Kingswood, covering an area of about 2,000 acres, all roads have notices up saying "No horses"?
LORD ST. OSWALDMy Lords, clearly I was not aware of that; but I wonder if my noble friend happens to know whether these are permanent notices or temporary notices the necessity for which I tried to describe in my substantive Answer.
§ VISCOUNT MASSEREENE AND FERRARDThey are permanent.
§ LORD SHACKLETONMy Lords, would the noble Lord now like to correct his statement that these restrictions are applied equally to men on foot or on horseback?
LORD ST. OSWALDMy Lords, I think it is the view of my noble friend that they are not applied to all and sundry, but I should like to look into it. It may be that restrictions are imposed with respect to grass roads and the damage to grass roads in wet weather from horses. I would say that this was a possibility.
§ VISCOUNT MASSEREENE AND FERRARDMy Lords—if your Lordships will excuse my intervening again—some of these roads are tarmac roads.