HL Deb 21 February 1963 vol 246 cc1513-6

Joint action by Ministers in certain cases

16. For the purposes of this Part of this Schedule—

  1. (a) a case falls within this sub-paragrah if, in accordance with paragrah 8 or paragraph 12 of this Schedule, as applied by section 19 or section 20 of this Act or by Part III of this Schedule, an objection is received by the Minister from any navigation authority, harbour authority or conservancy authority having functions in relation to an inland water to which the statement relates, or to which the proposals relate, as the case may be;
  2. (b) a case falls within this sub-paragraph if, in accordance with paragraph 8 or paragraph 12 of this Schedule as so applied, an objection is received by the Minister from any internal drainage board whose district comprises any such inland water as is mentioned in the preceding sub-paragraph or from whose district water is discharged into such an inland water;
    3. 1514
  3. (c) a case falls within this sub-paragraph if it is the case of an order under section 25 of this Act and either—
    1. (i) in accordance with paragraph 8 of this Schedule as applied by that section, an objection is received by the Minister from any navigation authority, harbour authority or conservancy authority having functions in relation to an inland water to which the order relates (either as prepared in draft or as proposed to be altered), or
    2. (ii) the order (either as prepared in draft or as proposed to be altered) relates to a tidal water in respect of which there is no relevant authority for the purposes of that section other than the river authority.

17.—(1) In any case falling within any subparagraph of the last preceding paragraph, paragraphs 7 to 9 or paragraphs 11 to 13 of this Schedule, as the case may be, shall apply as if for any reference to the Minister, except in the words 'an objection is received by the Minister', there were substituted a reference to the Ministers.

(2) In this paragraph 'the Ministers'—

  1. (a) in relation to a case falling within subparagraph (a) or sub-paragraph (c), but not falling within sub-paragraph (b), of the last preceding paragraph, means the Minister and the Minister of Transport acting jointly;
  2. (b) in relation to a case falling within subparagraph (b), but not within sub-paragraph (a), of the last preceding paragraph, means the Minister and the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food acting jointly; and
  3. (c) in relation to a case falling within both sub-paragraph (a) and sub-paragraph (b) of the last preceding paragraph, means the Minister, the Minister of Transport and the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food acting jointly."

The noble Earl said: My Lords, this Amendment has two distinct purposes. The first and minor purpose is little more than drafting; it is to insert a new sub-paragraph in paragraph 15 of the Schedule. The second purpose is rather more substantial. It is to introduce into the Schedule a new Part IV dealing with joint action by Ministers in certain cases. The effect of this new Part IV can be summarised as follows: first, where an objection to a draft statement of minimum acceptable flow or a proposal for amending such a statement is made by a navigation, harbour, or conservancy authority, the "decision making" processes (including the holding of a local inquiry) are to be a matter for the Minister of Housing and Local Government and the Minister of Transport jointly. Secondly, where an objection to such a statement or to such proposals is made by an internal drainage board then the Minister of Agriculture is to be associated with the Minister of Housing and Local Government in the same way. Thirdly, where objections are made by both a navigation, harbour or conservancy authority and an internal drainage board, then we shall have an unholy trinity associated in the decision-making processes: the Ministers of Transport, Agriculture and Housing.

These provisions of Part IV have been put down following an undertaking I gave to the noble Lord, Lord De Ramsey, during our Committee stage, and he has told me he is sorry not to be here to see its consummation. Your Lordships will recall he had tabled Amendments designed to associate the Minister of Agriculture at every stage of the procedure on minimum acceptable flows. The Amendments will secure that where a statutory body with which the Minister of Agriculture is concerned—namely, an internal drainage board—objects to a statement or a proposal for amendment, that Minister, the Minister of Agriculture, will be associated with the decision on that statement or proposal. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 119, line 3, at end insert the said new sub-paragraph and new Part IV.—(Earl Jellicoe.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Schedule 7 [Orders authorising execution of works]:

LORD HASTINGS

My Lords, this Amendment is consequential on the revised Clause 63. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 119, line 10, leave out from ("the") to ("a") in line 12 and insert ("engineering or building operations are to be carried out").—(Lord Hastings.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD HASTINGS

My Lords, the revised wording of this Amendment takes account of the revised Clause 63 (1). It specifies in greater detail the occupiers of land upon whom notice is to be served and also provides for notice to be served on every owner of land affected by a draft order under that clause. I beg to move.

Amendment moved—

Page 119, line 24, leave out from ("notice") to end of line 28 and insert— ("(a) on every local authority within whose area any of the engineering or building operations are to be carried out, and (b) on every owner, lessee or occupier (except tenants for a month or for any period less than a month and statutory tenants within the meaning of Part II of the Housing Repairs and Rents Act 1954) of any land in relation to which compulsory powers (other than powers of compulsory acquisition) would become exercisable by the river authority if an order were made in the terms of the draft submitted by them.").—(Lord Hastings.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

EARL JELLICOE moved to add to the Schedule: 7. In respect of any compulsory powers conferred by the order, other than powers of compulsory acquisition, compensation shall be payable in accordance with subsections (3) and (4) of section 62 of this Act, as if in those subsections—

  1. (a) any reference to the acquisition of the new right were a reference to the coming into operation of the order in so far as it conifers those compulsory powers;
  2. (b) any reference to the servient land were a reference to the land in respect of which those powers are exercisable by virtue of the order; and
  3. (c) any reference to the relevant date were a reference to the date on which the order comes into operation.

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