§ 3.45 p.m.
§ LORD DERWENTMy Lords, I think this might be a convenient moment for me to make the statement which my right honourable friend the Home Secretary has made in another place in reply to a Question which asked whether he has completed his consideration of the Report on the Organisation of After-Care made by his Advisory Council on the Treatment of Offenders. I will repeat 922 his statement to your Lordships using his own words:
"Yes, Sir. I have for some time been convinced that an essential part of the campaign against crime must be a more systematic development of after-care, to help those discharged from prisons and other establishments to withstand the temptation to revert to crime. The Government accordingly welcome the valuable study on the Organisation of After-Care made by the Advisory Council on the Treatment of Offenders, and accept in principle their recommendations, including their emphasis on the continuing need for voluntary effort as well. On some specific matters arising from the Report I want to consult further with those particularly concerned."
That, my Lords, is the statement.
§ EARL ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHMy Lords, we are much obliged to the noble Lord, Lord Derwent, for giving us this statement, but at this stage it certainly does not mean very much. We shall all need to make a good deal more study of the Report of the Advisory Committee. What exactly does it mean, in view of what is involved, by saying that the Government "accept it in principle"? Is it mostly in principle from the point of view of the need of a great deal more State concern with after-care? Or is it only just on the point of principle with regard to the continuance of the good work done by voluntary organisations? I do not know whether the noble Lord can give us more information on this point at the moment, but certainly this statement tells us very little indeed.
§ LORD DERWENTMy Lords, I can perhaps tell the noble Earl this: that up to this moment Her Majesty's Government have not said whether they accept the Majority Report at all and we thought it was essential that, before actually working out the details of how we are going to do this, we should announce that we do accept this Report in principle. The details must, of course, still be negotiated. But there was, as your Lordships will remember, a Minority Report, and we thought that at the earliest possible moment we must say that we do, in fact, in principle accept the Majority Report. That is the 923 object of our making this statement, and it goes no further.
§ THE EARL OF LONGFORDMy Lords, may I, while supporting my noble Leader in the gratitude that he expressed, ask whether "acceptance in principle" means acceptance of the proposition in the Report that there should not be a special new service for after-care but that there should be a combined probation and after-care service? We shall be discussing all this subject on Thursday, but at least one wants to know whether that particular aspect, which certainly cannot be called a "detail", has been accepted or not.
§ LORD DERWENTMy Lords, that, of course, is one of their main recommendations, and that we accept in principle. Details of how we are going to put the recommendation into effect still need discussion, but we do accept it in principle.
§ LORD OGMOREMy Lords, on behalf of my noble friends and myself I should like to welcome this statement as far as it goes. I think that in the supplementary questions the Minister has filled in some of the information that was lacking in the statement. We should like to have it known that we are convinced that this development of after-care is not only an essential part of the campaign against crime but also essential for the sake of the former prisoner as a human being. It is not just society but the individual who is concerned here. We feel, too, that the development of the probation service is very important. We realise the great help the probation authorities very often give to the people who come before the courts, and we should not like anything to be done which would in any way interfere with this system or reduce its importance. We shall await the debate on Thursday, and perhaps the Minister can then give us even more information than he has to-day.
§ LORD STONHAMMy Lords, can the noble Lord say whether his answer means that the Government are in favour of the decentralised after-care service and that they reject the suggestion of the Minority Report that there should be a centralised direction of after-care?
§ LORD DERWENTMy Lords, I think it may perhaps be better to leave this till Thursday. But in fact the noble Lord will remember that there were two Reports. The Minority Report said we should separate after-care and the probation services. That is not the one we accept. We accept that there should be an enlarged probation and after-care service together.