Lords Sitting of 30 October 1962

THE QUEEN'S SPEECH
The QUEEN, being seated on the Throne, and attended by Her Officers of State (the Lords being in their robes), commanded the Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod, through the Lord Great Chamberlain, to let the Commons know, "It is Her Majesty's pleasure they attend Her immediately in this House."
Who being come, with their Speaker:
Her Majesty was pleased to speak as follows:
"My Lords and Members of the House of Commons
"My Husband and I greatly look forward to our coming visit to Australia and New Zealand. I have the happiest recollection of our visit in 1953 and 1954, and it is a source of deep pleasure to Me that we can renew our acquaintance with those great and growing members of the Commonwealth.
"My Government have been shocked by the invasion of Indian territory by Chinese armies. They fully support India's decision to defend her rightful frontiers.
"My Government regard the development and improvement of relations between East and West as one of the most important aims of their policy. They will maintain their support for the United Nations, and they will con-
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tinue to work for international agreement on general and complete disarmament. They will persevere in their efforts to secure a treaty banning nuclear tests.
"My Government were gravely concerned at the dangers of the recent introduction of offensive missiles into Cuba. They have played their full part, in close consultation with My allies, in efforts to deal with the critical situation which arose. My Government were glad to learn that those missiles are to be dismantled, under the supervision of the United Nations. They will co-operate with My allies in seeking wider agreements in the field of controlled disarmament.
"My Government will continue, in conjunction with My allies, to seek to achieve by negotiation a settlement of the Berlin question which will preserve the security and freedom of the people of West Berlin.
"My Government will seek to strengthen the bonds which link the countries of the North Atlantic Alliance, which has a powerful contribution to make in maintaining the peace of the world. My Government will also take a full part in the work of other international bodies of which the United Kingdom is a member and will strive by all possible means to ensure the security and increase the prosperity of all countries in the free world.
"In co-operation with My allies, My Armed Forces will maintain their contribution to the prevention of war.
"My Government have welcomed the proposals put forward by the United Nations for conciliation in the Congo. It is their hope that the fair implementation of these proposals may lead to the co-operation of all elements in the Congo in the vital task of reconstructing that country.
"My Ministers recognise the great political and economic importance of the development of the European Communities and the opportunities which British accession to these Communities would bring. In close consultation with the other members of the Commonwealth and of the European Free Trade Association, and having full regard for those interests in the United Kingdom which are particularly concerned, they will use every effort to bring the current negotiations to a conclusion acceptable to Parliament.
"In pursuance of the plan for the proposed new Federation of Malaysia, detailed discussions are proceeding and in due course legislation will be laid before you.
"You will be asked to make provision for extending the present powers of the Colonial Development Corporation.
"My Ministers will encourage men and women from this country to offer their services for work in developing countries overseas, whether in the service of the other Governments concerned, as specialist advisers, or under schemes of voluntary recruitment.
" Members of the House of Commons
" Estimates for the public services will be laid before you.
"My Lords and Members of the House of Commons
"My Ministers will continue to promote efficient and sound expansion of the national economy, with a high and stable level of employment.
"My Ministers will pursue their aim of improving the balance of oversea payments and maintaining the strength of sterling. In co-operation with other Governments they will give constant attention to means of sustaining a rising level of world trade.
"My Government are resolved to maintain a stable, efficient and pros-
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perous agricultural industry. They will lay before you proposals on certain miscellaneous questions affecting agriculture. The fishing industry will continue to receive help and support.
"My Government will promote further improvements in the social conditions and in the housing, health and welfare of My People.
"Plans will be laid before you for the development in England and Wales over the next decade of the health and welfare services of the local authorities, in parallel with the development of the hospitals.
"A Bill will be introduced to extend the powers of local authorities in connection with the care of children, and to give effect to other recommendations which have been made by the Committee on Children and Young Persons.
"Fresh provision will be made for securing the health, safety and welfare of persons employed in shops and offices.
"A Bill will be introduced to increase the pensions of retired members of the public services and their dependants.
"The position of war pensioners and those who are receiving national insurance benefits will be kept under close review.
"My Government will continue to give attention to measures for the further protection of consumers. They will introduce legislation to bring up to date and extend the Weights and Measures Acts and they will establish a Consumer Council to represent and promote the interests of consumers.
"My Government propose to introduce a Bill which will require employers to give their employees written statements about terms of employment and will prescribe minimum periods of notice.
"Continued attention will be given to improving the supply of teachers for the schools. The expansion of university and technical education will continue.
"Legislation will be proposed for the reorganisation of local government in Greater London.
"Legislation will be required to amend and continue the operation of the Television Act. 1954.
"A Bill will be introduced to provide for the conservation and development of waiter resources in England and Wales.
"Bills will be laid before you to amend the criminal law of Scotland and make provision regarding legal aid in criminal cases, to revise the arrangements for paying grants to Scottish local authorities and to amend the law relating to education in Scotland.
"Other measures will be laid before you.
"My Lords and Members of the House of Commons
"I pray that the blessing of Almighty God may rest upon your counsels."
House adjourned during pleasure.
House resumed at half-past three of the clock, The LORD CHANCELLOR on the Woolsack.
Prayers—Read by the Lord Bishop of Leicester
SELECT VESTRIES
Bill,pro forma, read 1a.

ADDRESS IN REPLY TO HER MAJESTY'S MOST GRACIOUS SPEECH
The Queen's Speech reported by The LORD CHANCELLOR.
3.43 p.m.
BARONESS ELLIOT OF HARWOOD: My lord, I beg to move, That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty as follows:
"Most Gracious Sovereign—We, Your Majesty's most dutiful and loyal subjects, the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, in Parliament assembled, beg leave to thank Your Majesty for the most gracious Speech which Your Majesty has addressed to both Houses of Parliament."
My Lords, it is a very great honour indeed to be asked to move the humble Address, and it was with much trepidation that I accepted the invitation of the noble Viscount the Leader of the House. It is the first time in the history of this House that the eye of the Leader has lighted upon one of the category, a Lady who is also a Lord, this specie of homo sapiens having only recently appeared in this Chamber. It is doubly important to justify its existence and to try to follow the tradition of the movers of the humble Address both in speech and in dress; the latter perhaps more difficult, since I have no uniform and did not consider that evening dress for a Lord was a suitable garb. I trust that neither in what I say nor in how I appear shall I displease your Lordships on either side of the House.
In expressing thanks to Her Majesty on behalf of your Lordships for the most gracious Speech, it is my privilege and humble duty to pay tribute to Her Majesty, who in every year of her reign has strengthened the devotion of her people here and in the Commonwealth through the ever-renewed inspiration of her leadership, and to His Royal Highness the Duke of Edinburgh, who accompanies Her Majesty, and sometimes pilots himself all over the world and gives such a striking lead in very many different walks of life. Next year Her Majesty and His Royal Highness will be paying a visit to Australia and New Zealand. These countries received a Royal visit almost ten years ago, and

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now they are going to have the honour of welcoming Her Majesty again. We wish Her Majesty and His Royal Highness a safe journey and a happy experience in these two great Commonwealth countries.
I should like to pay tribute on behalf of your Lordships to the other members of the Royal Family, who accept so readily invitations which come to them from far and near and who receive enthusiastic welcomes wherever they go. We are all deeply indebted to them. I should like especially to welcome the appointment of His Royal Highness the Duke of Gloucester as Lord High Commissioner to the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland. When he and the Duchess go to Edinburgh on this important occasion, they will be most warmly welcomed by everyone.
I cannot conceal from your Lordships my Scottish associations. It is perhaps appropriate that, during these months and, indeed, years in Which we are negotiating for closer association with Europe through the European Economic Community, I should be given an opportunity to speak here. In Scotland, our ties with Europe, and more particularly with France, go back a very long way. In the 16th century we shared a Queen with France. Our trade went straight from Leith and other ports of the East Coast to the ports of Europe. Our universities are modelled on European universities and in those days our students, when they ventured forth from Scotland, went to universities in Paris, Holland and Belgium, and never to Oxford or Cambridge. In fact—and your Lordships Will forgive me for reminding you—we fought the English for 300 years, and the thought of trading with the English or sending students to English universities during those years was impossible. Therefore, it is with less apprehension than that of some of our English neighbours that we contemplate a closer tie with Europe to-day.
The gracious Speech recognises the importance of the development of the European Community, and we are all watching with the keenest interest the splendid efforts of the Lord Privy Seal, supported by the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary, to press for terms
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which will enable us to trade within the Common Market. This policy, which must of necessity be gradual, will, in the first instance, bring us closer to our European Allies and also—and perhaps more important—closer to those who were our enemies and who are now our Allies in Europe to-day.
The political importance of joining the European Common Market seems to me to be as great as the commercial importance. Our influence can be effective only from within. And we are assured that it will not mean the abandoning of our sovereignty or the subordination of our Established Church. I am told that many people have written asking whether the Church of England will be changed. If again I may refer to Scotland as an example, our Kirk has remained an independent body since the Union and neither the Church of England nor the Roman Catholic Church has altered the independence of the Church of Scotland. There is no reason why closer association with Europe should in any way affect the Church of England.
The hope for British industry, if we join the Common Market, with its 250 million people, is very great, provided we can modernise our plant and methods of production. It will mean changes here, as the Prime Minister pointed out in his far-sighted and courageous speech at Llandudno. But change is the essence of progress and without it we should be left behind and lose all our influence, both in Europe and in the rest of the world. I thought when the Commonwealth Prime Ministers left after their last Conference that they too realised that for the United Kingdom to be a leading Power in Europe was greatly to their advantage, just as it is to their advantage that we take a lead in the United Nations; and in the final communiqué issued at the end of the Conference they urged
" comprehensive international efforts by all available means to expand world trade in both primary products and manufactures ".
Starting from the European Community and spreading outwards, all Commonwealth countries would benefit from a prosperous Britain in the European Economic Community. I realise, however, that I must not dwell too long on one aspect of Government policy, especially as this is to be debated next week.
Parliament opens to-day at a moment when the grave international tension of the last ten days has to some extent been relieved. For this we are profoundly grateful. The courage of President Kennedy has been rewarded. The attempt by the Russians to establish new missile bases has ended. The good offices of the United Nations have been accepted by both sides. In this Mr. Khrushchev has shown wisdom. No policy is irrevocable unless it is persisted in. He has reversed his policy in Cuba and the world can breathe again. But without the strength of the American deterrent and the support which Her Majesty's Government showed in their communiqués, and the determination of the Free World to stand together in the face of Russian actions, it is doubtful whether the outcome would have been so successful. Now our hope in the possibility of future disarmament talks has risen and we begin once more the search for peace.
But Communism is a gigantic organisation throughout the whole world. I am sure I am voicing the feelings of your Lordships on both sides of the House when I say how we deprecate the monstrous attack by the Chinese Communist army on the Indian people of the North-East Frontier, who by no stretch of the imagination could have been accused of aggression. India has a special place in our history, and I think in our hearts. Her Army is modelled on ours; many of her officers have been trained at Sandhurst. Whatever differences we may have had with India in the past, we remember the magnificent troops who fought with us in two world wars, the marvellous welcome Her Majesty was given from the whole subcontinent, and the gigantic task that Mr. Nehru has undertaken with his Government to bring democratic government to Asia. We must stand by them in whatever manner is considered appropriate in their fight against this new Communist aggression.
The gracious Speech makes reference to the United Nations, and I am solidly behind the policy of Her Majesty's Government to do all in our power to strengthen this organisation. Have we not in fact since 1947 added to the voting strength of the United Nations twelve independent nations of the Commonwealth
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with an estimated population of over 604 million people, and in addition four ex-Commonwealth countries with a population of over 33 million?—a contribution to the Free World of which I think we can be justly proud. We have supported the United Nations and its Agencies consistently. We have added to its voting strength. We cannot add to its authority unless all countries, especially those from the Communist world, genuinely mean to work together in good faith. The Russians have allowed U Thant into Cuba to-day. Let us hope that they will allow the United Nations authority to operate on other problems as well.
We support the NATO Alliance and the other international organisations of which we are members. In our Foreign Secretary, the noble Earl, Lord Home, in whom we all have such faith, we have a man who by his clear, calm handling of these terrible problems in the nuclear age can help as much as anyone else in the world to preserve the peace of the world in these anxious times. In the words of the gracious Speech we must
" strive by all possible means to ensure the security and increase the prosperity of all countries in the free world."
Your Lordships will have welcomed the statement in the gracious Speech that detailed discussions are now proceeding to implement the decision in principle of the British and Malayan Governments that a new Federation of Malaysia should be brought into being by August 31, 1963. Your Lordships welcomed this development on August 1. The Commonwealth Prime Ministers also welcomed it, in the communiqué from which I have just quoted. Both the North Borneo and Sarawak Legislatures welcomed the development, subject to satisfactory safeguards of their special and territorial interests. The people of the State of Singapore have endorsed, by referendum on September 1, the agreement reached between the Prime Ministers of Malaya and Singapore concerning the terms of the intended merger of the two countries within Malaysia. Your Lordships would, I am sure, like to congratulate the noble Marquess, Lord Lansdowne, Chairman of the Inter-Governmental Committee set up for that area, who has twice during

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the Recess been to Borneo to speed the negotiations, on the success of his work up to the present time.
The reference in the gracious Speech to extending the powers of the Colonial Development Corporation and the encouragement to men and women to offer their services in these developing countries overseas will, I know, be welcomed by your Lordships. Here is a field in which we can show our good will towards these areas and bring about a greater understanding between East and West.
Now, my Lords, with your permission I should like to turn to those items in the gracious Speech which forecast legislation on home affairs. There will be a group of Bills affecting the everyday life of our people. A Bill is promised for England and Wales to improve the health and welfare services along with the continuing development of the hospital services. I am particularly glad that we are to have legislation to enable local authorities to undertake preventive social work for children neglected in their homes, living under conditions which often lead to ther appearance in the juvenile courts, which might well be avoided. This legislation will be of great help to the children's officers. There is to be legislation for the health and welfare of those working in shops and offices. There is to be a Bill to increase the pensions of public service officers, particularly those who have served in colonial countries and in whom your Lordships take a keen interest. The gracious Speech also refers to the protection of consumers, a class to which we all belong and whose interests have been studied and reported on by the Molony Commission.
The words "Weights and Measures" appear again—I only hope that we have more luck this time. The subject of the renewal of the B.B.C. Charter and television will come before your Lordships in 1963. Here again is a subject in which your Lordships take a keen interest. Education is promised further help, and I greatly hope that the staffing of the new universities, and indeed all universities, will be given priority. We all know of the shortage of teachers, the need for professors to staff the new universities and
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colleges of higher education. This is a matter of the greatest importance.
The gracious Speech refers to the importance of the agricultural industry. Declaring, as I have done before in your Lordships' House, my interest as a farmer, I may say that we in this industry are watching with some anxiety the splendid efforts of the Lord Privy Seal to secure an agricultural policy for the Common Market in which we can join. It is not easy. Agriculture is not an easy industry to legislate for; farmers—and this seems to be the same in all countries—are great individualists. I would only say that I think that our fanners and farmworkers are ready to try new methods—to use new machinery wherever it can be proved to be of value—and if the Government could only guarantee us slightly better weather on occasions, I believe that we should be ready to co-operate and to join in the work of the Common Market. My Lords, there are always "ifs".
I should like to end where I began with my own country, Scotland. We are promised legislation in three subjects—local government, education and criminal justice. All these are subjects of enormous importance. We have had many local government Bills through this House, and it falls largely to local authorities to care for the community life of the people and to make effective much of the legislation which goes through Parliament. The present Bill will no doubt deal with the continuation of the Exchequer equalisation grant, which expires next year, and which has done much in Scotland to help the less well-off authorities. The Criminal Justice (Scotland) Bill will, I hope, implement some of the recommendations contained in the four carefully prepared Reports of the Scottish Advisory Council on the Treatment of Offenders. And there is mention of an Education Bill which will further the successful development of the advanced grade of the Scottish Certificate of Education, setting up an Examination Board.
My Lords, I have covered a lot of ground in my speech and in my references to the gracious Speech. Under the traditionally formal phrases of the gracious Speech I find a vigorous approach to the new age in which we live; a forward-looking policy in foreign affairs; an understanding of the new industrial revolution in which we are

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taking part. There is a spirit of change expressed in the gracious Speech, which seems to me at this time singularly appropriate. My Lords,
" There is a tide in the affairs of men, Which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune ".
If we can harness this tide to the interests not only of ourselves but of all the countries of the Free World, we shall have achieved much in this moment of history.
Moved, That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty as follows:
" Most Gracious Sovereign—We, Your Majesty's most dutiful and loyal subjects, the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, in Parliament assembled, beg leave to thank Your Majesty for the most gracious Speech which Your Majesty has addressed to both Houses of Parliament."—(Baroness Elliot of Harwood).
4.3 p.m.
LORD DYNEVOR: My Lords, in common with other noble Lords who have been asked by the noble Leader to perform this task of either moving or seconding the humble Address, we may wonder why we have been chosen. When I look at the serried ranks of your Lordships on this side of the House, and see what an immense and fertile field there was for the choice, I can only express my humble thanks to the noble Viscount that it has fallen on me. Maybe he wanted to express a compliment to the Principality of Wales and, if that be the case, I am humbly grateful to him for having done so. The noble Lady and I, when we were discussing the gracious Speech, decided that, as she came from Scotland and I from Wales, we could possibly between us throw a kindly word to England; and that, perhaps, I shall be able to do in the course of my short address.
My Lords, it is an added satisfaction and privilege to me that it falls to my lot to be the first to compliment a Peeress on having the honour of moving the humble Address. When we heard the manner in which it was moved we were not surprised, as we all know her attention to detail and grasp of public affairs and, indeed, the noble Lady's service to this country as a delegate of the United Kingdom to the United Nations in New York. We were not
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surprised that we listened to so splendid a speech as we have just heard.
When I was asked to do this I could not help reflecting that the first Election at which I ever cast a vote was the Election of 1918—when I was still under the age of 21 and the franchise was lowered for the soldiers and, I suppose, the sailors and the airmen. It was the first Election in which a woman was ever returned to the British Parliament. The Countess Markievicz was the Sinn Fein Member for a Dublin constituency. She never, in fact, took her seat, and it fell to the noble Lady, Lady Astor, to be the first woman actually to sit. But the fact remains that the start of my public career, if we may so call it, was the first time that women had the vote at all at the age of 30 and upwards. Only ten years later was the universal franchise given; and 40 years after 1918, in 1958, Peeresses were admitted to your Lordships' House. Perhaps I may say very truthfully that the garrison warmly welcomed the besiegers, and that they now play a valuable and integral part in your Lordships' affairs.
While I am on the subject of reform of your Lordships' House—it is not mentioned in the gracious Speech, unless it is buried in that little sentence at the end, that "Other measures will be laid before you"—I should like, if I may, just to express a personal view: that, while it may well be quite understandable that certain individuals would rather remain Members of another place than sit here, what I do sometimes rather resent is the implication that membership of your Lordships' House means retiring into some antiquated and dusty mausoleum, like a sort of Madame Tussaud's going through waxworks' motions, and that we are lost to all outside contact. I believe that to be an entirely false picture. I believe that your Lordships' House is and has been over many hundreds of years, an integral part of the Constitution. It is at this moment more virile and useful, perhaps, than it has been for many years in the past. I think that we may all pay tribute to noble Lords on the Front Benches opposite for the manner in which they keep the duties of an Opposition going, and the duties of this House functioning.
The noble Lady covered a great deal of ground and paid a most eloquent stribute to Her Majesty with which I should

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like to associate myself. There is so much in the gracious Speech, and not very much time allotted to cover the ground, that it is obvious that I can make reference to only one or two points. But it is a very full Speech, and I have calculated that in the last 40 years to Which I have referred no fewer than 2,400 Acts of Parliament must have been passed, not counting Private Bills—Corporation Bills and so on—and yet there still appears to be plenty left for Parliament to deal with. I calculate also that if every point in the second half of the gracious Speech (had five minutes devoted to it no less than 80 minutes would be required for either the mover or the seconder to address your Lordships. We shall not do that. The details of proposed legislation have to be awaited in the presentation of the Bills, although possibly further information may be given during the debate during the next few days. Some noble Lords may know the story of the civil servant who lost his way on Dartmoor in a motor car and who asked a countryman where he was. The countryman said: "Why, you are in your car." "Ah !", said the civil servant, "that is the perfect answer to a Parliamentary Question. It is short, it is true, and it does not add one single iota to the knowledge of the questioner."
My Lords, we are not allowed to be controversial to-day; therefore I skate very lightly over a very important proposal in the gracious Speech, which is to reorganise local government in London. I make no attempt to assess the merits or demerits of this proposal, but I hope that whatever is going to be done will be done quickly, because there is now a hiatus; there is grave uncertainty. Important departments of the London Council are losing valuable officers. Architects and professional men are finding it difficult now to get decisions in such matters as planning. Therefore, the sooner the matter can be resolved one way or the other the better it will be for the life of this great community.
An interesting proposal is one to make employers give employees written statements about their terms of employment and to prescribe minimum periods of notice. I feel this may well prove a very beneficent reform, and it should not be too difficult in long-established and large firms or industrial undertakings.
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But I believe it could be a matter for debate whether small and struggling and new enterprises should not have some latitude or time limit within which to establish themselves rather than that they should never start at all because of too great a load placed on them in the inception. It would be better in the long run that struggling enterprises should succeed and grow into large ones than that the community should be deprived of their services.
I think also the legal aspect should be gone into very carefully in respect of firms with hourly-paid employees, and also, the question whether it will be a one-way or a two-way traffic. But all this is a step towards improving industrial relations, because we all feel sad when continual strife is to be seen in any industry, and we can only hope that an atmosphere will prevail in which no serious interruptions of trade and industry will occur in the forthcoming twelve months. An employer or a union can close a works, but only the customer can reopen it.
We are all vitally interested in the soundness of sterling, the prevention of unemployment and the rising level of world trade. Economic councils have been set up to study conditions under which a rising level of production and incomes may be sustained on an even course. I think this thinking for the future is of the greatest value and it might even include in the months to come a study of the use of leisure. As mankind is relieved of back-breaking toil by the use of machines, which has been a progressive process now for many years, we should face the fact that leisure need not necessarily be idleness and that leisure can in fact be full of interest. Is there not a field here to try to recapture service to the community? Sometimes it is said it is getting difficult now to obtain voluntary services, but there are many ways in which leisure can be used, such as in youth clubs, playing fields, all the things that may help to give youth a sense of purpose in the world. In increasing leisure, there may well be increasing numbers willing to lend their energies in that direction.
I made one very short calculation—one more; this is the last one. There are 168 hours in a week. Assuming a 40-hour working week, this leaves 128; and

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7 hours' sleep a night for 7 nights a week takes 49 hours. That leaves 79 hours. After providing 10 hours for travel or whatever you may have to do, it still leaves 69 hours to be filled in. And the working week will get shorter. I have no doubt that as civilisation progresses machines will gat better and the shorter week will come. The whole essence of modern civilisation is that mankind should have a fuller life.
The gracious Speech refers to a Bill to conserve and develop water resources in England and Wales, which I suppose may be based on the lines of the Government White Paper of last April. Here, my Lords, is one of our greatest problems. The water table lis falling slowly and it touches the sensitive spots in both countries. Extraction of water from rivers arouses the deepest feelings of resentment in river boards and fishermen. Noble Lords will remember the fate of proposals to take over Lake Windermere as a reservoir, while the Treweryn Dam in North Wales was hotly debated as a desecration of Welsh water for the benefit of England at the expense of Welsh industry. It even arouses the ire of the National Parks Commission. Rapid expansion of Welsh industry (and great changes have been accepted without strikes in Wales) has taken place, and undoubtedly needs a great deal of water. For instance, quite recently in South Wales we have had the Esso Refinery, the great steel mills of Llanweryn and we are now hoping for another Regent refinery in Milford Haven. They all require immense new sources of water; but I hope and believe that this problem can be solved by good will and unselfishness. For an overriding fact is that the 52 million people in these islands require water; consumption by industry and agriculture is enormous and the heaviest rainfall is in the west and the north.
The noble Lady referred to agriculture, mainly in Scotland, I think; but I want to express my own gratitude because it is still proposed to maintain a stabile, efficient and prosperous industry. The agriculturist does indeed watch, as has been said, the Common Market negotiations, which have recently been taking place in Brussels without much apparent success. While the Common Market must, in my view, be right in
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principle, farmers may be forgiven for wondering just how all the problems are going to be reconciled. My noble friend, Lord Amherst of Hackney, who spoke in this place last year, said that £3,800 million of capital is invested in agriculture. This is a very considerable contribution to the economy of the country. Nor must forestry be overlooked, nor the fishing industry. More and more land must be taken for houses and factories, and the land is shrinking at an enormous rate. Therefore, the agricultural industry must always keep itself abreast by modern methods, by research and by economic units, and so on. In fact, I read in the paper only this morning Chat the perfect pig had been produced: 99 marks out of 100 for perfection.
The mention of university grants in the gracious Speech is of great interest. I happen to have the honour to be the President of the University College of South Wales in Cardiff, and only the other day we were able to take over St. David's College at Lampeter for the purposes of the University Grants Committee. This seems to me to be a perfect example of how England and Wales should work together and not be mutually antagonistic. I think we cannot escape (nor should we want to escape) the fact that England is the dominant partner in the United Kingdom.
My Lords, I really have reached the end of my allotted time, but in ending I cannot help referring, if I may, to one other thing in view of the immense crisis that this country has been through and the danger that it was facing only three days ago. This so overshadows everything else that perhaps I may be forgiven a few observations. All history shows that if you lower your guard thieves will come in and despoil you: so, in this imperfect world, armaments must be maintained so long as they have to be. But I want to say this on behalf of the inarticulate millions of persons who want only to be left alone and live in peace. If ever it could be argued, as it was in Germany at one time, that a nation can get soft and slack, and that war will restore a certain fibre in the national consciousness, it is certainly true no longer, because the scientist has seen to that.
We know that mankind lives under the monstrous shadow of nuclear war in which millions would die without a

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chance; but, somehow, we must have faith in the future. We must hold on, our guard kept up in the meantime, until at some future date mankind may perhaps achieve its goal of universal peace. I do not think it will come in our time, but it is something for which we must strive. The beginnings are there, however imperfect they are—the poor League of Nations, which failed; the United Nations; the endeavours to get nuclear disarmament. However heartbreaking the failures of the conferences, I hope that they will always go on.
I turn to that tremendous poem Locksley Hall in which Tennyson "dipt into the future" and foretold scientific wonders: of aerial commerce and of the nations' airy navies dropping their "ghastly dew"—"ghastly dew" now seems to be nuclear fall-out—until eventually come the great lines:
" Till the war-drums throbb'd no longer, and the battle flags were furl'd
In the Parliament of man, the Federation of the world."
I beg to second the Motion for an humble Address.
4.24 p.m.
VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGH: My Lords, I once again have the very great pleasure of rising to pay tribute to the mover and seconder of the humble Address to Her Majesty. It is a particular pleasure today, because it is an historic occasion, as has been mentioned by the seconder of the Motion. The noble lady, Baroness Elliot of Harwood, is the first woman Peer ever to be able to say that she moved the humble Address to Her Majesty—and one cannot help but admit, from this the Opposition side of the House, that she displayed extraordinary capacity in carrying out her task. Of course, we had expected that of her, because in the years she has served as a lady Peer here she has already demonstrated her great knowledge of all matters which arise in our public life and administration in this country.
I only wondered at the start whether perhaps I had not been quite right—though I think I was—in my thought, when I heard who was to move and to second, that the Leader of the House, with his extraordinary record as leader of the Conservative Party (it has never
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been quite so well led since), had found a real reason at this time for having both a mover and a seconder of such loyalty to his Party that they had occupied high office in the Party administration. The noble Lady served as chairman on one of the great organisations of Co-operative women—I mean Conservative women. It is a terrible thing how these words all begin with a "C ".But she did more than that. She was also chairman for quite a time of the general Union membership of the Conservative Party in its organisation. And I must say that, if that was the idea in the mind of the noble Viscount the Leader of the House, the noble Lady has certainly fully carried out any obligations she might have to him on that account.
On the other hand, I am bound to say—I am sure the noble Baroness will not mind—that it seems extraordinary to me that we should get such a tower of strength to the Conservative Party from a descendant of the great Tennant-Glenconner clan. They were great pillars of strength to the Liberal Party; and I just wondered to myself how it has all come about. Then I am reminded of the extraordinarily happy marriage she had, over a quarter of a century, to that dear friend of us all, in every Parity in the House—Walter Elliot. He was a dear friend to all of us. We often disagreed with him, but we always admired him and had great friendship with him. I was thinking, as the noble Lady spoke, that he would have been very proud of her this afternoon. His great strength of mind and character I put down as the real reason why the noble Lady was converted to the Conservative Party and has given them such constant loyalty ever since.
The public work that the noble Lady has done throughout her life has always interested us. Her interest in young people, in youth, and in those youth who go wrong sometimes, and her long service in connection with those various aspects of work given her to do with the Ministry of Labour, does her very great credit. She spent very long periods of time in that Ministry. I feel to-day that, whilst we have been rejoicing during the last three or four years about the advent into this House of women

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Members, we have had another justification of it to-day, and that she has set a standard for women as a whole and not merely as one of the Peeresses in this House. I hope it will mean that there will be still further expansion in the use, in public life, of the womanhood of our country.
Perhaps I may now be allowed to say a word or two about the one whom I first knew as a very handsome young man, with fair, curly hair, who almost continuously, at the beginning of his membership of the House of Commons, sat in that second seat behind the Front Bench, and who was consecutively Private Parliamentary Secretary to one or other of the Ministers and finally (as I seemed to be reminded when he told that delightful story about the car on Dartmoor) to the most important when he became Private Secretary to Mr. Stanley Baldwin when he was Prime Minister. I remember those days very well. Nobody could have had more jokes about Parliamentary Questions handed to him than the Parliamentary Private Secretary to the Prime Minister. I have been into that office of the Prime Minister many and many a time when there have been two, three and sometimes four Secretaries, and they discussed these matters behind the scenes with great gusto.
However, may I say that it is a very great tribute to the noble Lord for him to be asked to second a loyal Address, and I think he deserves it. He has been very loyal to the Party. I remember him as the Member for Romford in those early years. I was not sorry that he lost in 1929—it was a very important Election to us—but he came back for another constituency, and I watched his career all the way through. He is a man of understanding and of substance. He has never quite parted from his Prime Minister's leadership, it seems to me, because he is still in the line of Richard Thomas and Baldwins; and he has certainly mastered the principles of finance that have enabled him to direct very substantial financial companies, but he is much too nice a man about whom to use that dreadful American term "tycoon of finance"; he is such a charming personality. He has of late years taken a very deep interest in the rural life of Wales and the great problems that affect Wales as a Principality.
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I am going to read very carefully the speeches that have been made by the mover and seconder this afternoon, because I intend to be allowed to open the debate on the Address to-morrow, and I might perhaps have a rather more controversial word or two to say when I come to that stage; but it would ill befit me now to refer to any point which has been made by the mover and seconder. I do say to both of them: Scotland has done well and Wales has done well to-day. And what a kindly thought it was from the seconder to think that perhaps between them they might say a good word for England! That was a very nice thought.
I will only say this of the very determined way in which the noble Baroness, Lady Elliot of Harwood, addresses your Lordships' House. It is gracious but determined, and reminds me of her Scottish marriage and Scottish connections. I always think very much, when she is speaking—because I am very fond (I have told the House before) of the combat in The Lady of the Lake—and addresses with firmness the House, that she never gives up a fight that she has put her hand to. You remember what Fitz-James said to Roderick Dhu:
" But fear not, doubt not which thou wilt, We'll try this quarrel hilt to hilt."
So adieu, Madame, until to-morrow, when we can discuss more nearly the things that have already been opened before your Lordships to-day. Perhaps the noble Viscount the Leader of the House will agree that it would be convenient if I formally moved the adjournment of the debate, to be followed by the Leaders of the other Parties in their tributes.
Moved, That the debate be now adjourned.—(Viscount Alexander of Hillsborough.)
4.35 p.m.
LORD REA: My Lords, I rise to support, with your permission, the Motion that the debate be adjourned until tomorrow—which I thought for a moment had escaped the mind of the noble Viscount who leads Her Majesty's present official Opposition. But, in addition to supporting that Motion, it is of course my great pleasure to endorse his felicitations and compliments, so properly to be made to the noble Baroness and the noble Lord who

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have just been addressing your Lordships. From this quarter of the House our compliments are directed I think topographically in a sort of oblique way, but I would congratulate them on their sincere addresses, because we have a great admiration for them both. They performed their responsibilities with charm and interest, as, of course, all of us anticipated they would.
I think it would be out of place for me to try to hand out any flattery or encouragement to two such very experienced Parliamentarians, for each has a great interest not only in your Lordships' Chamber but, in different ways, in another place. So far from their coming here this afternoon for a viva voce examination, it is we who have sat at their feet, to he charmed by their expertise in persuasiveness and in advocacy of political theories which they are not even allowed to mention. I will content myself by giving thanks to the noble Viscount the Leader of the House for his happy choice in providing us with such a very welcome mover and seconder of the Address, whom I think we can all claim as personal friends.
As your Lordships know, by tradition the mover and seconder must be Back Benchers of the Party in power. Therefore I think that perhaps we should be additionally grateful, in these times of political musical chairs, when seats become suddenly vacant, either at the front or the back, and have to be quickly filled, that the noble Viscount caught these two while they were still eligible. I need not mention, as the noble Viscount has, the very great amount and value of their public works. We thank both of them for their excellent speeches, and for so diplomatically indicating the welcome improvement in the Government's intentions. I beg to support the Motion for adjournment.
4.37 p.m.
THE LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL AND MINISTER FOR SCIENCE (VISCOUNT HAILSHAM): My Lords, this is the third time I have had to perform this task, which is primarily to thank the two noble Lords who have just spoken, the noble Viscount who leads the Opposition and the noble Lord
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who leads the Liberal Party, for the very gracious remarks they have made about my two noble friends who have moved and seconded the loyal Address. However, before I do so I feel that we should all endorse the tribute which both my noble friends paid to the Royal Family in customary terms; and customary terms none the less real for being customary.
I happened to be dining the other night with a very distinguished American couple, and one of them, with the simple charm and moral earnestness which characterises my mother's people, who never seem fully to comprehend that we are no longer governed by George III, said: "Don't you find it very enervating to the people to like ceremonial and so much Royalty?"
My Lords, it is worth saying that these sentiments which we utter customarily are deeply felt. Any nation requires a focus of its national patriotism and a symbol of its continuity with the past; an earnest of its hopes for the future, and an emblem of its ideal of public service. We think we are lucky to have an institution in which these things are lifted above the rancour of Party politics or the disciplines of political life; and we think in this generation that we are doubly fortunate in having a family who not only command but deserve respect and affection, and a Sovereign in whom beauty and charm enables us to love as well as to follow; and who, on an occasion like the present, in which we have all taken part, manages to give a great air of grace, beauty and dignity to our Parliamentary inauguration every year.
My Lords, I was glad, if I may say so, that my noble friend Lady Elliot of Harwood began with what I can only describe as a fashion note. We have become used in the last two or three years to splendid uniforms, but in order, as it were, to celebrate the breaking out of peace all over the world—for which we are, at any rate for the time being, profoundly thankful—both my noble friends have appeared in civilian dress; and very becomingly. My noble friend who moved the Address rightly pointed out that the strict analogy to male Court dress is full feminine evening dress. I understand that the gown, as I believe it was called, in which my noble friend Lady Horsbrugh

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first moved the loyal Address in the House of Commons, is actually preserved in the London Museum as an historical relic. If I may say so, I thought that my noble friend's choice was admirable, and I hope she will let us have the creation at some time—we may like to keep it in the Library. The noble Lady has, in fact, brought off what one might call a triple first. She was not only the first Lady to move the Address in this House, but she was, as we have been reminded, the first member of her sex to speak as a Peer in your Lordships' House, and indeed the first Life Peer to speak here at all.
My noble friend who seconded the Address comes, like the noble Lady, from what the noble and gallant Field Marshal, Lord Montgomery of Alamein, habitually describes as "the tribal areas". Indeed, my noble friend is a not inconsiderable tribal chief, being not merely a lineal descendant of the Talbots, the Earls of Shrewsbury, but also, even more important in the eyes of enthusiasts, a descendant of Rhodri Mawr, the great Prince of South Wales in the 9th century. I understand that the columns of the Western Mail are from time to time filled with suggestions that he should assume or re-assume the Crown of Wales. I am sure that we were all much reassured this afternoon when he made it apparent, by his loyal tributes to Her Majesty, that even if it were offered to him three times, as it was to Julius Caesar, he would not in fact be disposed to accept.
I, too, like the noble Viscount, will restrain my remarks on this occasion. I only venture to say, in concluding, that we obviously have a very full programme in front of us. Some of the legislation will be controversial; some of it, I hope, will be less controversial, and I hope that we shall manage to give a good account of ourselves in both types of legislation. My noble friend who seconded the Address said, I think rightly, what an important part we are playing in the Parliamentary life of the country. I think this has developed in recent years. If it has developed, it has done so, at any rate in part, as a result of the reinforcement which the House has received on
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both sides from the Life Peers, of both sexes; and I hope that this Session, which we shall spend together in serious discussion of great matters, will serve to enhance the reputation of this House still further.
On Question, Motion agreed to, and debate adjourned accordingly until to-morrow.

CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES
4.45 p.m.
VISCOUNT HAILSHAM: My Lords, I beg to move that the Lord Merthyr be appointed to take the Chair in all Committees of the House for this Session.
Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to nemine dissentiente.

JUDICIAL BUSINESS (APPELLATE COMMITTEES)
THE LORD CHANCELLOR (LORD DILHORNE): My Lords, I beg to move, That this House, in discharge of its constitutional duty to act as the ultimate tribunal in appeals from England, Scotland and Northern Ireland, orders that two Committees, each of which shall include all Lords qualified under section five of the Appellate Jurisdiction Act, 1876, as amended by any subsequent enactment, be appointed to hear, during the present Session, such appeals as may be referred to them, in order to secure the due expedition of public and judicial business; and that the Committees have leave to report to the House from time to time.
Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to.
Committee for the Journals—Appointed.
Appeal Committee—Appointed.
Stoppages in the Streets—Order to prevent, renewed.

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
VISCOUNT HAILSHAM: My Lords, I beg to move to resolve, That whenever during the present Session of Parliament the House stands adjourned, and it appears to the satisfaction of the Lord Chancellor (or, if the Lord Chancellor is absent, to the satisfaction of the Lord Chairman of Committees after consultation with Her Majesty's Government) that the public interest requires that the House should meet at any earlier time during such adjournment, the Lord Chancellor or the Lord Chairman of Committees, as the case may be, may give notice to the Peers that he is so satisfied, and thereupon the House shall meet at the time stated in such Notice, and shall transact its business as if it had been duly adjourned to that time.
Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to.

CRIMINAL JUSTICE (SCOTLAND) BILL [H.L.]
THE MINISTER OF STATE, SCOTTISH OFFICE (LORD CRAIGTON): My Lords, I beg leave to introduce a Bill to amend the law of Scotland relating to the imprisonment and detention of offenders and other persons; to make further provision as to the treatment of prisoners and other persons committed to
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custody, including provision for their supervision within the British Islands after discharge, for the management of approved schools and for the treatment of persons detained therein; to amend the law relating to the payment of fines and detention in default of payment thereof within Great Britain; to alter the law relating to the proceedings of criminal courts in Scotland and to legal aid in such proceedings; to alter the law relating to the enforcement of warrants of arrest in Great Britain; to provide for the execution in Scotland of warrants issued by courts in the Isle of Man; to make certain consequential amendments to the First Offenders Act, 1958, and the Criminal Justice Act, 1961; and for purposes connected with the aforesaid matters.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 1a.—(Lord Craigton.)
On Question, Bill read 1a, and to be printed.

ROLL OF THE LORDS
The LORD CHANCELLOR acquainted the House that the Clerk of the Parliaments had prepared a Roll of the Lords.
The same was laid on the Table, and ordered to be printed.
House adjourned at thirteen minutes before five o'clock.