§ 2.43 p.m.
§ LORD LUCAS OF CHILWORTHMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government when it is proposed to bring into force the City of Oxford (Prohibition of through goods vehicles) Order, 1962, so as to allow the diversion of such traffic from the centre of the city to the recently constructed Western Bypass in order to relieve the congestion within the city, for which purpose the by-pass was built; and whether through passenger coaches will come within the scope of the Order.]
§ LORD CHESHAMMy Lords, my right honourable friend the Minister of Transport proposes to confirm the Order as soon as the necessary traffic signs can be erected; the Order will come into effect as soon as it is confirmed. Passenger coaches will not come within the scope of the Order, which applies only to goods vehicles.
§ LORD LUCAS OF CHILWORTHMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that within the next two weeks the Birmingham and West Midlands holiday season starts and that it is at this time that the traffic congestion in Oxford builds up to its peak? Would he see whether the Order could be in force before Whit- 6 sun? He is also aware, is he not, that there has been a similar Order in force in the city of Gloucester for eighteen months? Could the signs not have been copied from that scheme, which has worked admirably? Further, could I ask the noble Lord whether or not the Minister has power under Section 27 of the Road Traffic Act, 1960, to vary this Order so that it includes through passenger coach traffic, which, in the summer, is the main contributory factor to the congestion which the by-pass seeks to avoid?
§ LORD CHESHAMMy Lords, I was aware of when the Birmingham holiday season starts and of the number of coaches which go through Oxford at that time. I think that, despite what the noble Lord has just said about the Minister's power to vary the Order, normally, unless the Order is quite ridiculous, it is not the practice to do so. If the noble Lord wishes to complain that passenger vehicles should have been included in this Order, he should address his complaint to the Oxford City Council, who made the Order. They made this Order, I am sorry to say, without any prior consultation with my right honourable friend's Department. I very much doubt—in fact, I think it is very unlikely—that this Order Will come into effect before Whitsun, as I do not think the traffic signs will be ready. They are very much more complicated, unfortunately, than those in use in Gloucester, because the situation there is not comparable with that in Oxford. The by-passes are not yet complete and the signs will have to be of a very complicated nature, because they will have to indicate to drivers coming in from various directions not only what to do but also how to get to quite a variation of different routes away from Oxford. The problem is complicated, my Lords; and I am bound to say that, had there been some degree of prior consultation, a good deal more consideration could have been given to these signs in advance.
§ LORD LUCAS OF CHILWORTHMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware—and if he is not, may I inform him—that I do not happen to be a member of the Oxford City Council? But I am a Member of your Lordships' House and, as such, I am entitled to ask the 7 Minister, who is the ultimate authority for these signs, whether he will make representations to the Oxford City Council to produce another Order. It would be far better for the Minister than for me to do it. I can assure him that the by-pass will not be used to its fullest extent until the heavy Midlands coach traffic is diverted. If there has not been proper consultation between the Minister and the Oxford City Council, may I suggest to him, with the greatest respect, that it is for the Minister of Transport to put that right?
§ LORD CHESHAMMy Lords, I do like to argue with the noble Lord, but I do not think he is quite correct in this matter. I will certainly carry away his words and show them to my right honourable friend, but he must remember that, whether he is a member of the council or not, the responsibility for traffic within the city of Oxford rests entirely and squarely on the Oxford City Council, but in respect of traffic regulations is subject to confirmation by my right honourable friend.
§ LORD LUCAS OF CHILWORTHMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the by-pass to which I am referring is not in the city of Oxford? It is a trunk road outside the city of Oxford, for which the Minister is responsible.
§ LORD CHESHAMMy Lords, the traffic which the noble Lord wishes to divert is being diverted out of an area for which the Oxford City Council is responsible.
§ LORD LUCAS OF CHILWORTHIf the noble Lord will forgive me for saying so, he is entirely wrong. The by-pass starts outside the city boundary. Therefore, it does not come within the purview of the Oxford City Council: it comes within the purview of the 8 Minister of Transport, who is the authority for trunk roads.
§ LORD CHESHAMMy Lords, I do not like to disagree with the noble Lord.
§ 2.48 p.m.