§ 2.35 p.m.
§ BARONESS WOOTTON OF ABINGERMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, in view of the decision to maintain the London County Council education service for five years, the break-up of the London child care services will be similarly postponed.]
THE JOINT PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY, MINISTRY OF HOUSING AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT (EARL JELLICOE)My Lords, the Government have throughout made it plain that special arrangements were needed for education in central London; they have merely postponed decisions about the limits of the central area and the arrangements to be made for borough participation in education administration in that area until the new authorities are in being and available for consultation on this outstanding problem. Different conditions apply to the children's service. The Government are satisfied that this should be a borough responsibility throughout Greater London. The borough councils will be responsible for the local health and welfare services with which the children's service is closely associated, and it is desirable that they should assume responsibility for all these services at the same time.
§ BARONESS WOOTTON OF ABINGERMy Lords, I thank the noble Earl for his Answer. Is he not aware that, in 524 the case of children, education and welfare are inextricably intertwined and that very serious damage is going to be done to individual children if these two aspects of their welfare are dealt with by different authorities?
§ LORD TAYLORMy Lords, is the noble Earl further aware that the links between the children's service and the health services are tenuous indeed compared with those for education?
EARL JELLICOEMy Lords, I am, of course, aware that there is a close connection between the education service and the children's service; but, unlike the noble Lord, I believe that there is an even closer association between the children's service and the health and welfare services and, indeed, housing, all of which will be borough responsibilities.
§ LORD STONHAMMy Lords, is the noble Earl aware that the Report on the needs of mentally handicapped children, which was published yesterday, emphasised very strongly that so far as subnormal children were concerned the responsibility should be under the education and not the health authority? Is this not one of the many examples of the difficulties which are going to be caused in London if these two services are separated prematurely before this matter has had full consideration by the new local authorities which are going to be set up?
EARL JELLICOEMy Lords, I am afraid that I have not, as yet, been able to study the Report which was published yesterday, but I will undertake to do so at an early opportunity.
§ LORD TAYLORMy Lords, if the noble Earl changes his mind, will he convey that fact to his right honourable colleague?
§ BARONESS WOOTTON OF ABINGERMy Lords, does the noble Earl think that he is emulating the wisdom of Solomon in dividing his children in two?
EARL JELLICOENo, my Lords, I do not. But the point is that the noble Lady's proposals would divide the children in two just as much.
§ BARONESS WOOTTON OF ABINGERIs not the inference of that that no division is necessary and that it would be much better to leave all services unified as they are at present?