HL Deb 31 July 1962 vol 243 cc107-10

2.36 p.m.

LORD CONESFORD

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they recognise the architectural importance of the Royal Avenue in its relation to Wren's masterpiece of the Royal Hospital, and can assure the House that, in the event of any application for development, they will insist on the strict observance of the requirements of the then Minister of Housing and Local Government, set out in his letter of the 7th September, 1961, that the whole terrace shall be built at one time and that the design shall be worthy of the site.]

THE MINISTER OF STATE, HOME OFFICE (EARL JELLICOE)

My Lords, my right honourable friend the Minister of Housing and Local Government understands that an application has been made to the London County Council in respect of the proposed redevelopment of the sites of Nos. 1 to 15 Royal Avenue. He has directed that this application shall be referred to him for decision in view of the importance of the site in relation to the approaches to the Royal Hospital, and of his previous decision. In these circumstances the noble Lord will appreciate that I can express no views on the matter at this stage.

LORD CONESFORD

My Lords, may I thank my noble friend for that Answer, which shows that his right honourable friend rightly appreciates the importance of this matter? May I ask my noble friend this question: Does he recall the view expressed by the Royal Fine Art Commission in 1960, that the design of the Royal Avenue forms a unified composition which should be retained in any redevelopment? In these circumstances, can he assure the House that the Royal Fine Art Commission will again be consulted before his right honourable friend approves any new application?

EARL JELLICOE:

My Lords, may I thank my noble friend for his benevolent observations? I do recall the view expressed by the Royal Fine Art Commission, and I will of course bring to the attention of my right honourable friend the view expressed by my noble friend that the Royal Fine Art Commission should be further consulted

LORD MOLSON

My Lords, cannot the Minister go a little further than that? Surely, in a matter of this importance, he can give an undertaking that the Royal Fine Art Commission will be given an opportunity to express their views before a decision is taken?

EARL JELLICOE

My Lords, I am afraid that at this stage I could not go beyond that

LORD SILKIN

My Lords, is it not equally prejudicing the matter the other way if, before the inquiry starts, the Royal Fine Art Commission are put into a specially privileged position? Is not the right thing for the Royal Fine Art Commission to give evidence at the inquiry, as any other interested party does, and for the Minister to take into account the representations that they make? I should not wish to disregard the views of the Royal Fine Art Commission, but I should deplore bodies having an opportunity of making representations outside the inquiry. I think the right place for them to make their observations is at the inquiry itself.

LORD CONESFORD

My Lords, am I not right in thinking that—

LORD SILKIN

Can the Minister answer my question now?

EARL JELLICOE

My Lords, I shall be glad to answer if I am given a chance. I appreciate the point made by the noble Lord opposite. It would be quite wrong for me to say anything at this stage, since the application has been called in, which would prejudice my right honourable friend's consideration of it either way. All I said was that I would bring the observation made by my noble friend to the attention of my right honourable friend.

LORD CONESFORD

My Lords, may I ask, purely for information because I know the noble Lord, Lord Silkin, is in no sense hostile to the purpose of my Question, whether it is not a fact (I think I am right) that under all Governments it has been the custom for the Royal Fine Art Commission to give their views to Her Majesty's Government and not to give evidence at the inquiry?

EARL JELLICOE

My Lords, I am not quite certain to whom the question was addressed, and I am not quite certain that I know the answer. I will look into it.

BARONESS HORSBRUGH

My Lords, would the noble Earl convey to his right honourable friend the real anxiety that many people feel on this subject? I think it ought to be made perfectly clear that there is that anxiety, and that there will be great annoyance if that anxiety is not taken into account.

EARL JELLICOE

Most certainly.

LORD REA

My Lords, would the noble Earl not agree that the function of the Royal Fine Art Commission is to give advice before being called to give evidence?

EARL JELLICOE

My Lords, I said that I did not quite know the answer to that particular question and would look into it.

LORD MORRISON OF LAMBETH

My Lords, would the noble Earl keep in mind that, while the Royal Fine Art Commission has, as my noble friend Lord Silkin has said, a part, and an important part, to play in giving advice in this matter, some of us think that it would not be desirable for it to be elevated into a situation almost of dictatorship upon these matters, either to Her Majesty's Government or to the local planning authority? Teat seems to me to be the tendency of the questions Which have been put.

EARL JELLICOE

My Lords, I am sure that my right honourable friend will wish to bear in mind all the observations made by your Lordships.

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