COMMONS AMENDMENT (Hansard, 31 July 1962)

§ LORD CHESHAM
My Lords, this is another slightly "blockbusting" Amendment, because No. 38 is the substantive one with Nos. 71, 74, 76, 80 and 85 tailing along in its wake. The noble Lord, Lord Silkin, in his opening remarks, complained that efforts made by the noble Earl, Lord Lucan, opposite, and, as I recall, my noble friend Lord Merrivale as well, had been met with a blank refusal and no reason given. My Lords, I never mind any noble Lord complaining that his Amendment or Amendments have not been accepted, because that is the luck of the game. They cannot be both accepted and rejected, if opposite sides of the House take opposite views of them. Therefore, someone must be disappointed. But I must say that I felt a little disappointed that the noble Lord should have used those words, "blank rejection without reason given," because at the time the Government had certainly taken the view that safety requirements 150 were much better imposed by notice than by regulation. It certainly seemed clear that individual, separate treatment of each pipe-line, since we were dealing with a more or less unknown quantity, was a more effective method of making certain that all the necessary precautions were taken. As I recollect it, my noble friend Lord Mills said that more than once, in extremely clear terms.
Nevertheless, my Lords, the fact that one thought that, and that the Amendment was rejected at the time, does not mean that no attention was paid to the feelings of noble Lords who disagreed with the Government. Such feelings repeated themselves in another place, and between the two it was decided, when the Minister had further examined the matter, that a provision to make regulations should, after all, be written into the Bill, as an additional power to be used at his discretion. So noble Lords opposite, even if they lost the day at the time, must not think that their efforts proved absolutely fruitless, only to be replaced by efforts in another place, because I can tell them that it was a combination of the feeling expressed in both places that helped lead to this decision. My right honourable friend made it clear that, although he saw no prospect of regulations being made in the immediate future, he was quite ready to see included in the Bill a provision which would enable them to be made in due course, as and when that seemed to be both desirable and likely to be effective. What should go into those regulations is a matter to be settled rather in the light of experience yet to be gained; and that is, of course, the reason for doing it in this way. I hope that noble Lords opposite, and especially the noble Earl, Lord Lucan, will now feel a little happier about this point. I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Commons in the said Amendment.

§ THE EARL OF LUCAN
My Lords, I appreciate that our representations have tad some effect, and I express gratification that the opinions of the Government and of noble Lords in all parts of the House now coincide. To the extent that the Minister thinks there is no occasion it present for making regulations I must 151 express some disappointment. I can only hope that in the course of time experience will show that the laying down of safety regulations will be for the benefit of all those who wish to construct pipe-lines.

§ LORD MERRIVALE
My Lords, I should like to echo the words of the noble Earl, Lord Lucan, and also to say how delighted I am that my noble friend's right honourable friend has had second thoughts on this matter, and has decided to put down an Amendment which gives him power to make regulations. I am sorry he does not feel that this power will be used at the moment, or in the near future, because I think it is true to say that the petroleum industries and the chemical industries are well aware of the problems involved and could assist my noble friend's right honourable friend very extensively with regard to making these regulations.