§ 3.5 p.m.
EARL FERRERSMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the first Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government why, if they have decided to abandon the slaughter policy for fowl pest, vaccination is not to be made compulsory.]
THE JOINT PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY, MINISTRY OF AGRICULTURE, FISHERIES AND FOOD (LORD ST. OSWALD)My Lords, our very large poultry population is spread over many holdings and changes frequently and rapidly. Individual birds are difficult to identify, and it is not possible always to say whether individual birds have been vaccinated or not. For these reasons, and because of the shortage of veterinary manpower, it would be quite impossible to enforce any system of compulsory vaccination. In addition, some counties are comparatively free from fowl pest and we should not be justified in requiring owners in such areas to vaccinate their flocks.
EARL FERRERSMy Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his reply and I feel that I ought, in fairness, to declare that I have an interest in this matter, as on two occasions my poultry have suffered from this disease and have all been slaughtered; and I have been duly compensated. But would the noble Lord not agree that the vaccination individually of large quantities of birds is grossly impracticable, and that for the Government to move from a position of compulsory slaughter to voluntary vaccination can have only one effect, which is to increase very rapidly the incidence of this disease?
LORD ST. OSWALDNo, my Lords, our hope and expectation is exactly the contrary, and we do not see, as my noble friend does, the difficulty in egg producers carrying out the operation of vaccinating their own flocks.
§ LORD MORRISON OF LAMBETHMy Lords, could the noble Lord give me an assurance, as a ratepayer, that the local authority is not obligated to inspect all these birds to find out whether they have been vaccinated or not?
LORD ST. OSWALDMy Lords, I think my original Answer made it clear that we should not expect that of a local authority.
EARL FERRERSMy Lords, is the noble Lord also aware that this disease is transmittable to man; and that, indeed, my manager got fowl pest? Is he further aware that I suggested to him that he be slaughtered and I be duly compensated?
VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLS-BOROUGHMy Lords, may we understand a little more clearly what the objective of the Government is in the change that they have made? Is it merely to save the State from having to pay the compensation, or is it really to provide other means of effectively controlling this dreadful and spreading disease? We have had no clear statement on that matter. There are farmers all over the country who buy birds, say, at point-of-lay stage, perhaps a thousand, two thousand or three thousand at a time—I have never done that myself although I have taken a hundred—and they have found them within twenty-four hours to be infecte with fowl pest and the whole lot have had to be slaughtered. There are much bigger numbers even than that. If you are not going to have vaccination, what is going to prevent the spread of this disease?
LORD ST. OSWALDMy Lords, precisely this. The Government are subsidising vaccination to an extent which will bring the cost down as far as the farmer is concerned to a halfpenny or less per bird vaccinated. We hope to have the full co-operation of all egg producers, it being so much in their interests, and we look upon this as the best method of bringing fowl pest under control.
EARL FERRERSMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that under this system birds may not be vaccinated until they are two weeks old; before they get full immunity is another two weeks; and in the case of broilers, whose life is about ten weeks, they spend nearly half their life unvaccinated and are therefore prone to disease, and thus prone to spread it?
LORD ST. OSWALDI am afraid my noble friend has in fact punctured my own limited expertise An saying that; but I will took into the matter, and if I find that he is right in his assumption I will let him know. I did not know that the limit was two weeks; I had understood it was possible to vaccinate before. But my noble friend may be right.
VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLS-BOROUGHMy Lords, might I ask whether the Government will undertake that at the end of twelve months they will examine what the experience has been and if the incidence of the disease is spreading they will reconsider the policy?
LORD ST. OSWALDMy Lords, what I can give the noble Viscount is an assurance that we will, of course, be watching very carefully and closely the results of this policy.
§ LORD STONHAMMy Lords, will the noble Lord say how the Government will be able to watch the results? If, as I understand it, compulsory slaughter is going to be ended, will there be continued registration of the incidence of fowl pest? Otherwise the Government's watching will not he very effective and one will not know twelve months hence what the incidence is.
LORD ST. OSWALDMy Lords, certainly we expect to be in touch with farmers to know the results of this policy. We anticipate no difficulty in getting such information as we want.
§ LORD OGMOREMy Lords, as ratepayers will foe interested in this problem, may I ask how much it is expected it will cost, as compared with the previous system of slaughter?
§ LORD STONHAMMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that when fowl pest has occurred and there has been compulsory 1118 slaughter, an inspector has had to be notified? Does it now mean that notification will continue? Because if it is abandoned the Government will have no check upon the incidence of fowl pest.
LORD ST. OSWALDMy Lords, I think I have answered that question. We intend to keep in very close touch with farmers in order to observe and note the result of this policy.