§ 2.35 p.m.
§ LORD BARNBYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, following the vote in the United States House of Representatives, they will now give an undertaking that no United Nations Bonds shall be subscribed to by Her Majesty's Government while any members of the United Nations are in arrears with their subscriptions.]
§ THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS (THE EARL OF DUNDEE)My Lords, the noble Lord is, I think, referring to the recent vote in the United States House of Representatives by which an amendment was made to the annual Foreign Aid Authorisations Bill which would debar the Administration from purchasing United Nations bonds so long as member States were in arrears with their assessed contributions. I am informed, however, that this vote by the House of Representatives is not the last word in the matter since the amendment may not be maintained. Because of this, I not think Her Majesty's Government should allow it to influence their policy at the present stage.
The noble Lord might like to consider, however, that it is precisely because of the massive default by member States on their assessed contributions that the bond issue has become necessary to avoid the bankruptcy of the United Nations. To make the United Kingdom's purchase of bonds dependent on member States not being in default would be contrary to the whole object of the bond issue.
§ LORD BARNBYMy Lords, is the noble Earl able to indicate what are the intentions of Her Majesty's Government at the present moment? He indicated the reasons why the vote in the House of Representatives had that effect, but did not in his Answer meet the question as to the intentions of Her Majesty's Government.
§ THE EARL OF DUNDEECertainly, my Lords. We have not yet bought any bonds. We informed the Secretary-General last February of our intention to buy bonds within a maximum of twleve million dollars, but we told him we should not be able to make our first purchase until Parliament had adopted the necessary legislation; that is the Appropriation Bill which is being considered during the present Session. When the necessary legislation has been adopted, we will give the question of purchasing bonds our early attention. But I cannot anticipate the decision as to the amount of bonds we shall buy, or the time at which we shall buy them.
§ LORD OGMOREMy Lords, may I ask the noble Earl whether, in view of the recent decision of the International Court on the obligation of members to pay the special contributions, it may now be found unnecessary to issue these special bonds?
§ THE EARL OF DUNDEEI do not know about that. We welcome the advisory opinion of the International Court of Justice, and hope that it will encourage many of the defaulters to pay the arrears which they owe to the United Nations. Although this may in time lead to an improvement in the financial situation of the United Nations, it does not diminish the need for the bond issue which is designed to meet the current cash needs of the organisation. I understand that the bond issue contains provisions for the repayment of bonds, if subsequently defaulting nations are prevailed upon to make good their default.
§ LORD BARNBYIs it to be understood from the noble Earl's reply that no subscription would occur except by Affirmative Resolution of both Houses?
§ THE EARL OF DUNDEEIt cannot occur, my Lords, until the Appropriation 863 Bill has been passed and until we have been given authority by Parliament to subscribe to the Bond issue
§ LORD BARNBYMy Lords, I thank the noble Earl for that reply. Would he consider causing to be published, before the House rises, figures which would show the totals of the amounts in arrears under, (a) the normal contributions; (b) the special contributions by members of the United Nations; and also the total number of defaulters in both cases?
§ THE EARL OF DUNDEEYes, my Lords, I will certainly do that, and will have it placed in the Library
§ BARONESS HORSBRUGHMy Lords, can the noble Earl say why the only word he can use, after the decision of the International Court, is that it will "encourage" other nations to pay up? Is there nothing a little sterner or more forcible that can be said?
§ THE EARL OF DUNDEEI am always able to think of a better word myself.
§ LORD HENDERSONMy Lords, is it the intention of Her Majesty's Government to seek, at the United Nations, to get the recommendations of the International Court implemented by members of the United Nations?
§ THE EARL OF DUNDEEYes, my Lords, I have said we welcome this advisory opinion of the International Court, and we hope it will lead to the payment of what is due by the defaulters.
§ LORD HENDERSONI heard the noble Earl's previous answer, but my point was this: would the British Government take action in some form or other to seek to get the advisory opinion implemented by members of the United Nations?
§ THE EARL OF DUNDEEI think the only way in which it can be enforced is by depriving the defaulting nations of their votes, and I do not think we could do that on our own. I think there would have to toe a resolution of the Assembly.
§ BARONESS HORSBRUGHMy Lords, is it the policy of Her Majesty's Government to seek co-operation from other nations, in order that there may be a 864 workable solution to the situation as it is now, and not merely to give encouragement?
§ THE EARL OF DUNDEEYes, my Lords. I think the phrase which my noble friend has used is quite unexceptionable and correct.
§ LORD OGMOREIs it not a fact, my Lords, that the exclusion of nations, and prohibition from voting, is automatic? It does not need a resolution in the United Nations, because if they have not paid up by a certain time, two years, it is automatic that they are excluded from voting.
§ THE EARL OF DUNDEEMy Lords, that may be so under the Charter, but the General Assembly have on occasions given evidence of their willingness to alter the rules to suit present circumstances.
§ LORD HENDERSONMy Lords, would the noble Earl agree that it is not so much a question of disbarring these members who have not paid, but of getting them to pay? That is why I am urging that Her Majesty's Government should take positive action to get the advisory recommendation implemented. It only weakens the United Nations if members are "shot out"; it strengthens it if they have to pay.
§ THE EARL OF DUNDEEMy Lords, I entirely agree with the noble Lord. If he is able to give us any aid as a debt collector we shall be very grateful.
§ LORD HENDERSONYou are the Government.