§ BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what steps they propose to take to ensure that when wholesale prices in vegetables drop some similar change is effected in prices charged to consumers.]
THE JOINT PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY, MINISTRY OF AGRICULTURE, FISHERIES AND FOOD (EARL WALDEGRAVE)My Lords, I cannot accept the implication in the Question that movements in the retail prices of vegetables do not regularly reflect those in the wholesale markets. I am afraid that it would not be practicable, even if it were desirable, for the Government to intervene.
§ BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRYMy Lords, might I ask the noble Earl if he would be kind enough to tell me whether I heard him correctly? Did he say that prices to the consumer do not reflect prices in the wholesale market? I do not know whether I had that wrong.
EARL WALDEGRAVEMy Lords, the noble Lady, I think, did not hear one of the "nots". It was a double negative. I said that I could not accept the implication that movements in the retail prices of vegetables do not regularly reflect.…
§ BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRYThank you. If I put on my glasses to read what I have here, perhaps the Minister would tell me whether this 364 information is correct. Could he tell us whether, in so far as potatoes were concerned last week, it is correct that the wholesale prices to farmers dropped by £1 per cwt., but that potato prices stayed up at around 10d. or 1s. a lb. in the shops? Would he know whether that information is correct?
EARL WALDEGRAVEMy Lords, I think that it would be correct to say that the wholesale prices of potatoes probably did fall between 15s. and 20s. per cwt., but the indications are that retail prices in the shops have generally been reflecting the general trend of the downward fall.
§ BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRYMy Lords, is the Minister aware that there is one point on which I can definitely comment there? After buying my own potatoes, I can assure him that they were at that price. They certainly did not fall below 10d. or 1s. What I am not clear about—and I should like the Minister's opinion on it—is this. Could he tell me whether the price of 10d. or 1s. per lb. reflects the fall in the wholesale price to the farmers, or was that the price before the fall took place?
EARL WALDEGRAVEMy Lords, I cannot pretend that I know the exact facts stated by the noble Baroness in her own particular piece of shopping. But I can say that the wholesale prices have been falling in this last week and that, by and large, by competitive shopping—and this is the only real control—it is possible to buy cheaper goods which will reflect the fall in the wholesale price.
§ BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRYMy Lords, may I finally ask the Minister whether he is aware that I realise that it is better to let other people blow one's trumpet than to blow it oneself, but does he know that I am a most competitive shopper, that I do look at the prices, and that they are that price throughout; and that it is not the slightest use for a Minister on the Front Bench who does not go shopping for potatoes to tell me that I can get them more cheaply than the price at which I saw them?
§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHMy Lords, would the Minister mind if we reminded him of a commodity which is not under discussion of the moment, meat? Last year the price fell about 40 per cent. at certain times, but the butchery trade themselves admitted up to only 7 per cent. reduction.
§ LORD AMWELLMy Lords, may I ask where this competitive marketing is to be found?—not in Hampstead, where I live.
EARL WALDEGRAVEMy Lords, I do not know the shops in Hampstead. I know better those in the South-West part of London, but I am sure that if you shop competitively you will find goods, perhaps of similar quality, at different prices in different shops. The noble Lord would find that, for example, in the King's Road, if he would perhaps come and visit me.
§ LORD STONHAMMy Lords, reverting to the original Question, is the noble Earl not aware that, particularly in salad materials, sharp falls in wholesale prices are not reflected in falls in retail prices, because retailers tend to maintain the same price? He must be aware of that, from his own experience in horticulture.
EARL WALDEGRAVEMy Lords, I am not aware of this. The whole question of the retailers margins and the passing on of wholesale price falls was gone into very carefully by the Committee presided over by the noble Viscount, Lord Runciman of Doxford; and it was not found, after the most exhaustive inquiries, either that excessive margins were made in the retail vegetable trade, or that, toy and large, the prices did not, as they naturally must in a competitive society, follow one another.