GREY SQUIRRELS (Hansard, 31 January 1962)

§ THE EARL OF SWINTON
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

THE JOINT PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY, MINISTRY OF AGRICULTURE, FISHERIES AND FOOD (EARL WALDEGRAVE)
My Lords, the Forestry Commission estimate that grey squirrels increased generally last year throughout England and Wales and slightly in Scotland. It is not possible to give an estimate of actual numbers. The larger numbers have caused greater damage, but only 22 of the Commission's 560 forests have reported severe damage. Recent enquiries have shown that although damage occurs mainly in woodlands, some damage, occasionally severe, does occur in gardens and crops. With 1033 regard to the second part of the Question, there is no evidence that a bonus could reduce the total number of grey squirrels decisively and permanently and it is not the intention of the Government to reintroduce a bonus. However, the Timber Growers' Organisation in cooperation with the Forestry Commission and the Pests Division of the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food is conducting a wide publicity campaign against this pest.

§ THE EARL OF SWINTON
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that the propaganda conducted by the various institutions which he has enumerated has, at any rate in the North of England, been signally unsuccessful in inducing the squirrels to practise either euthanasia or birth control? Does he not think that perhaps k would be more effective, and no more expensive, to offer some modest financial inducement?

EARL WALDEGRAVE
My Lords, it is not just propaganda, but propaganda on how to 'destroy the squirrels. I am bound to say that all the scientific evidence we have collected is that very little good was done by the bounty. The year 1957, the last year in which the bonus was paid at 2s. a tail, happened to be a very favourable year for the grey squirrel—there was plenty of food and it was a good breeding season—and the numbers increased to something like what they were in 1953 when the bonus was first introduced. The bonus, Which cost £80,000 over five years, was paid to little effect. After the bonus was withdrawn the conditions were less favourable for the grey squirrel and the numbers fell again.

§ LORD CRATHORNE
My Lords, does not the noble Earl agree that when the bonus scheme was in operation a very large number of grey squirrels were destroyed, and that that was the object of the exercise? Will he look at this matter again in due time and give your Lordships an assurance that he has not closed his mind entirely to reinstating the bonus scheme at some future date?

EARL WALDEGRAVE
My Lords, I will certainly look at the matter again in due time—I am constantly thinking of it—but I cannot give any assurance. 1034 As I said in my original Answer, it is not the intention to reintroduce a bonus.

§ BARONESS HORSBRUGH
My Lords, could my noble friend say whether it is the case that the bonus could be got by sending the tail of a grey squirrel, it not being necessary to kill the squirrel, which could grow a further tail?

EARL WALDEGRAVE
My Lords, I imagine that, subject to the various laws we have in this country for the prevention of cruelty to animals, that would be possible.

§ LORD BALFOUR OF INCHRYF
My Lords, would the Minister draw the attention of the propagators to the propaganda?

THE EARL OF BUCKINGHAM-SHIRE
My Lords, would the noble Earl ask his right honourable friend whether grey squirrels could be dealt with by the rabbit clearance societies?

EARL WALDEGRAVE
My Lords, there is nothing at present to prevent rabbit clearance societies from dealing with squirrels at their own expense. The main job of these societies is to control rabbits, and some of them control wood pigeons and coypu. Now that this work of controlling the rabbits is well advanced, I do not close my mind to the possibility of extending the grant to other pests. I think we should consider that, but I do not know what the results of our consideration may be.

§ LORD KILLEARN
My Lords, the noble Earl mentioned wood pigeons, which I was longing to bring in, but which I thought was irrelevant. I think he said that this society, whatever they are called, was in a position or able to give a subvention on wood pigeons. I should like to inform him that that is no longer so. I recently applied for cartridges for killing pigeons, and I was turned down.

EARL WALDEGRAVE
My Lords, this hardly arises on the Question about grey squirrels. Wood pigeons can be dealt with under the appropriate rules of rabbit clearance societies. The noble Lord and I had correspondence about 1035 this matter. Agreed methods for controlling wood pigeons are eligible for subvention under rabbit clearance societies.

§ LORD KILLEARN
I mentioned wood pigeons only because the noble Earl mentioned them before I did. It is on the Record.

LORD REA
My Lords, would the noble Earl consider consulting the noble Lord, Lord Dowding, in order to learn the right words to use to ask the squirrels to go away?

EARL WALDEGRAVE
No, My Lords.

THE DUKE OF ATHOLL
My Lords, I wonder whether the noble Earl has any figures for the amount of damage that grey squirrels do, and, if so, whether he would consider circulating them in the OFFICIAL REPORT so that we can at least understand the extent of the problem.

EARL WALDEGRAVE
My Lords, I am afraid I have no official figures of damage; they would be very hard indeed to compile. I am well aware, and I should not like your Lordships to think otherwise, that these pests do damage to woodland timber, trees and crops. But I am afraid I have not any figures of what that damage would be evaluated at in pounds, shillings and pence.