§ 3.40 p.m.
§ VISCOUNT HAILSHAMMy Lords, I rise, not to reply to the noble Lord's gracious and interesting speech, but to make the statement which was announced earlier in our proceedings. With the permission of the House, I will now repeat a statement on the Northern Rhodesia Constitution which 971 has just been made by my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for the Colonies in another place. Perhaps I may say that, should not speak audibly, I hope I may be pulled up; but I am suffering a little to-day and I hope I may be forgiven if I do not speak as audibly as usual. The statement is as follows:
"In September last my predecessor announced that once violence and disorder had ceased in. Northern Rhodesia Her Majesty's Government would be ready to consider, on the basis of the White Papers and his statement in the House on the 26th June, any representations within the area where divergencies of view on the Constitution still persisted. When the Governor reported to me that violence and disorder had ceased I called for such representations and I subsequently visited Northern Rhodesia and saw representatives of all the parties concerned.
"Not surprisingly there were widely differing views expressed. But many of the demands made fell outside the limits set by the September statement.
"Her Majesty's Government have reached the conclusion that some changes are required in the June proposals, but that these should not amount to reopening questions which, at the time, opinion in the territory appeared in general ready to accept. In particular Her Majesty's Government believe that the fundamental principle of the White Papers should be maintained, namely, that it should be open to any Party or Parties to obtain a majority if they can pass the necessary tests and that, in particular, in order to qualify for a National Seat, any candidate must obtain a stated minimum percentage of votes from both races.
"Her Majesty's Government have considered with particular care the aspect of the proposed Constitution which has caused the greatest controversy, namely, the numerical alternative of 400 votes. The effect of this is that while the degree of support that an African candidate would normally have to obtain from the European voters would have been 1 in 8, a European appealing to African 972 voters, would only have needed around 1 in 25. Her Majesty's Government accept that this gives ground for legitimate complaint and that the purposes of the White Papers can best be achieved if candidates have to obtain the same minimum proportion of the votes of either race. They therefore propose to abolish the numerical alternative.
"Her Majesty's Government further feel that the qualification of 12½ per cent. is too high and they therefore propose to reduce it to 10 per cent.
"We do not propose to make any other changes.
"The necessary Orders-in-Council will be made and laid before the House as soon as possible. Is is the earnest hope of Her Majesty's Government that all parties in Northern Rhodesia will now co-operate in the new Constitution and fight the election when it comes on this basis."
§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHMy Lords, I am much obliged to the noble and learned Viscount for making the statement here which has been made by the Secretary of State elsewhere. I am a little concerned about whether this is the exact and right occasion to express any detailed opinion upon the changes, because I have been going back over the documents and it seems to me still to require very careful working out as to how this particular statement will affect the proposals which have been made from time to time, in the White Paper and the statement of February, the White Paper of June and the statement that was made in September. It seems to me—I am hound to say this at once frankly—that the Government have made some improvement in one respect in regard to the position arrived at in the June White Paper, but at first glance—and I do not want to commit myself to this until we have had further study of all four documents, together with the statement to-day—it appears that the position arising out of it for the Africans as a whole will not be as favourable as was foreshadowed in the White Paper of February. We should rather like to have a further study of this matter before we express any more firm views than I am expressing now.
973 On the other hand, I think it is vital, in the interests of the unity of the whole Commonwealth and of the future of the Central African Federation or of the individual units of the Central Federation, that some reasonably quick settlement, agreeable to all, should be made. These frequent occasions of rather dodging about from decision to decision give cause for a great deal of the anxieties and dissatisfactions which arise. Therefore, while I do not want to pass any severe criticism upon this statement until we have compared the mathematics of its electoral system with those in the previous statement, I am rather anxious to make sure that the Government will feel that they have gone far enough to come to a proper, fixed and stable situation.
§ VISCOUNT HAILSHAMMy Lords, I sympathise with the noble Viscount in his difficulty about the mathematics of any situation connected with this Constitution. I think that is a difficulty we all share. I am grateful to him for the very kindly and responsible answer to the statement that has been made. I think the position of the Africans is not less favourable than was foreshadowed in February. Indeed, I should almost be prepared to argue that the various safeguards which have been introduced and reintroduced in June and February, really would not have altered the effect of an election very much had one been held under any of the proposals. There are, however, only two respects, I think, in which the position of the Africans differs. The addition of 500 Africans to the Upper Roll, which was conferred by the June Constitution, is still there; and, therefore, to that extent they are more favourably placed than in February. We have altered what I think was admittedly a mistake in the February arrangement: that is, that the arrangements for the preliminary qualification voting, if I may so call it, was by roll and not by race. It is now by race and not by roll. Those are the only two differences I can see. One is favourable to the Africans, and I should not have thought they could reasonably claim that the other was unfavourable.
§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHMy Lords, I am obliged to the noble Viscount, but I shall still require time to study it. I want to 974 be quite sure that the general system which seemed inherent in the White Paper of February, that both races should be in a reasonable position to be able to obtain a majority, receives further study.
LORD REAMy Lords, may I add one remark? We have heard the opinions of the two major Parties. I should like to agree with the noble Viscount, the Leader of the Opposition, that this is not the time when we should enter into detailed debate. I think we are, nevertheless, all very glad to see that this thing has come to fruition at last, and that a little oil has been put an troubled waters. Of course, the seething and turmoil is not likely to subside immediately, but we wish the Government all good fortune in their advance in this way, and trust that they will make further advances as time goes on.
§ 3.50 p.m.
§ THE EARL OF SWINTONMy Lords, I agree that this is not the time to debate this subject, but I should like just to clarify my own mind, and perhaps the minds of others, by asking two questions, because one has heard the statement now for the first time. As I understand it, the only change which has taken place from what we were told in June is that we now have 10 per cent. in place of the combination of 12½ per cent. plus 400. If that is so, then I must say that it seems to me a simplification Which is an advantage, particularly where an election has to be conducted by voters a number of whom will be voting for the first time and many of whom are inexperienced. It seems to me it will be an easier system for everybody to understand and to operate, and, incidentally, it follows the British system, where the first horse past the winning post wins, which we on this side and noble Lords on the other side have always accepted as a sensible way of doing business, the only exception being the Liberals, who would like a more complicated solution in the hope that they might ultimately reach Zion—here or hereafter.
My second question is this. As I understand it, this scheme preserves, as the other schemes have, that to be successful in a National Seat a candidate must obtain both European and African 975 votes. If that is so, and I think it is clear that it is, then it preserves that essentially non-racial approach which I think all of us in this House have felt was so important and of which, indeed, Sir Roy Welensky has been a very strenuous, eloquent and wise supporter. That is how I understand it and, if that is so, then is it not true that that gives an opportunity and an encouragement to moderate men, whether they be black or white? If my understanding is correct, then I would agree with the Leader of the Opposition that this decision falls well within the narrow limits of the matters which were left over for further consideration, and I congratulate the Government on having refused to go outside this.
There was one matter which I think was implicit in what the noble Viscount the Leader of the House has said. I take it that the Asian-Coloured Seat stands, that the National Seats are 14 and that there is one seat left over. That was a new proposition to us, but I must say that the more I think about it the more attracted I am, and I hope that that will stand. I share the views expressed by the Leaders of both Parties opposite that we are glad that this matter has come to an end, or, at any rate, that a solution has been found, and I add only this: that I think there is an additional benefit because this solution, which deals only with the Northern Rhodesian Constitution, gives time for the wider issues of the Federal Constitution to be considered in all their aspects. Rush decisions are seldom right, and anywhere—and perhaps more in Africa than anywhere else—time and the experience that time brings are of inestimable value.
§ VISCOUNT HAILSHAMMy Lords, I would thank my noble friend for his intervention, which I think will serve to clarify the issue and which also contains the fruits of his wisdom and experience. My noble friend is correct in both his understandings of my original statement. He is correct in thinking that the only change from the June proposals is the substitution of 10 per cent. for 12½ per cent. and the abolition of the numerical alternative of 400. It follows from that that he would be right in drawing a corollary that the Asian Seat still stands, and it is certainly true that our intention 976 and understanding of the effect of all three sets of proposals, including this, is that it should be possible for moderate men of either race to secure election under them, and there is no reason at all why they should not do so. We do not, of course, wish to be able to tell in advance who will, and I am grateful for the warning my noble friend gave us in his last sentence.
§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHMy Lords, I do not like to be drawn into another statement and I have no objection to what the noble Earl has said, but I still think that this statement to-day wants further study with the other documents, because I am under the impression that it does not yet give as much as was foreshadowed in the White Paper of February. I hope we shall leave it at that.
§ LORD SILKINMy Lords, can the noble and learned Viscount tell us what consultation there has been with different sections of opinion in Northern Rhodesia on this revision? And is he able to give us some idea of the reactions to these changed proposals?
§ VISCOUNT HAILSHAMMy Lords, I do not think I could, without notice. The noble Lord will no doubt have known that my right honourable friend spent some time in Northern Rhodesia—indeed I think he referred to it in his statement—and no doubt that time was spent in consultation; but without notice I should not like to give a reply. Obviously these proposals have only just been made known to everybody, and in these circumstances I cannot say what the reactions of the various Parties are to them.