BRITISH TRANSPORT REORGANI SATION (COMPENSATION TO EMPLOYEES) REGULATIONS 1962 (Hansard, 20 December 1962)

§ LORD CHESHAM
My Lords, may I very briefly explain the purport of these Regulations? As you know, under the Transport Act, 1962, the British Transport Commission's undertaking is to be divided between the British Railways Board, the London Transport Board, the British Transport Docks Board, the British Waterways Board and the Transport Holding Company. My right honourable friend has now made an Order—The Transport Act 1962 (Vesting Date) Order 1962—which will effect the transfer from the Commission to these five new statutory bodies on January 1, 1963. Under Section 81 of the Act, my right honourable friend must make regulations to require the Boards and the Holding Company to pay compensation—and I quote from the Act: to persons who are at the passing of this Act officers or servants of the Commission and who suffer loss of employment or loss or diminution of emoluments or pension rights, or whose position is worsened, in consequence of the reorganisation effected by this Act". It is therefore in discharge of this duty that these draft Regulations have been laid in this House and in another place, and I am now asking your Lordships to approve them.
I should like to point out to your Lord-ships that these draft Regulations provide terms which are in some respects better than those given in previous statutory re-organisations in the nationalised transport industry. They have been modified only in minor respects to bring them into line with current practice in the other nationalised industries. In their preparation there has been full consultation with the Trades Union Congress and 21 unions involved. I think I may claim 1241 that they go as far as is reasonably possible to meet cases of hardship arising in organisations affected by the Act and, accordingly, I ask the House to approve them. I beg to move.

§ LORD STONHAM
My Lords, we on this side of the House welcome this Order and regard the arrangements as quite satisfactory. I do not think the noble Lord mentioned the number of persons likely to be in need of these regulations for compensation. I understand that it is quite a small number—probably a good deal less than 50—but perhaps he could confirm that, so that we may know the number of people likely to be affected. One other point: the noble Lord made it clear that there have been adequate consultations with the trade unions concerned—some 21 trade unions—but, of course, this referred only to the new main bodies to be set up under the Transport Act. He will be aware that there are subsidiary or ancillary organisations, some of whose employees may be affected, and I should be very glad if he could give us an assurance that there will be consultation with the trade unions in respect of those employees, so that we can be sure that heir interests also will be covered.

§ LORD CHESHAM
My Lords, the noble Lord is right regarding the number of people. It is extremely difficult to be specific in anticipation of what it may be, but I understand it is generally thought the number concerned will be nearer 10 than 50. As regards the subsidiaries, their employees are, of course, left out under this Act. The noble Lord will appreciate that. The terms of the Act which I read out confine the compensation provisions to employees of the actual British Transport Commission and do not apply to subsidiaries. On that point we had a great deal of discussion, of which the main point was that the subsidiaries are not affected, as such, because their employees are transferred in bulk, with pay and working conditions and everything. As the noble Lord says (and I have just confirmed this) the employees of the subsidiaries are debarred, as it were, from this consideration under the Act. But if, in what I regard as 1242 the very unlikely event of the circumstances being as the noble Lord suggested—that an employee of the subsidiaries should be affected in this way—my right honourable friend would be prepared to receive representations about it from the unions; and if it seemed appropriate, he would pass them on to the Board concerned.