§ 3.48 p.m.
§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHMy Lords, I think perhaps that it would be convenient if at this stage we were to interrupt this debate to hear the statement that the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, is going to make, which has already been made in the House of Commons.
§ THE FIRST LORD OF THE ADMIRALTY (LORD CARRINGTON)My Lords, in point of fact, I think that the noble Viscount was to ask a Private Notice Question in these terms:
To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they would make a statement on the recent talks between the Minister of Defence and Mr. McNamara.
My right honourable friend the Prime Minister has made the following answer in another place:
"As the House knows, the Minister of Defence is at present in Paris for a meeting of the NATO Council. The Government will take an early opportunity of making a statement to the House about his talks with Mr. McNamara, when he returns to this country."
That statement, of course, will be made in your Lordships' House as well.
§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHMy Lords, I am much obliged to the noble Lord. We are very anxious that information should be available to Members before the Christmas Recess. I take it that the words used by the Prime Minister in his statement mean that we shall have a full statement before the House adjourns for the Recess.
§ LORD CARRINGTONYes, my Lords. I do not quite know what the Minister of Defence's movements are, but he will be hack some time in the middle of next week and will make a statement then.
§ LORD BOOTHBYMy Lords, may I ask whether it is a fact—it has been stated in the Press—that no final decision will be taken on this matter until after the Prime Minister has met President Kennedy in the Bahamas?
§ LORD CARRINGTONYes, my Lords, that is perfectly right.
§ LORD SHACKLETONMy Lords, in view of the great public interest, cannot the Government give us some information? We are threatened literally with disaster to our defence policy. Has the First Lord no information? Is this the independent deterrent, which is so independent that we have to go to America to be told whether we can continue it? And would the Government consider, and perhaps give us some indication, what the consequences will be on the aircraft industry? That might be another disastrous aspect.
§ LORD CARRINGTONMy Lords, I think that it would be better if the noble Lord were to argue all these points when he hears the statement of the Minister of Defence in the House next week.
§ LORD MERRIVALEMy Lords, may I ask two questions of my noble friend? Would he not agree that there may be grounds here for supporting France in her desire to become an independent nuclear Power on a quid pro quo basis if she were willing to support our claim for the continuance of the American Skybolt programme? May I also ask whether conversations are taking place in Paris on that aspect? Finally, would my noble friend not agree that the Government should insist on receiving a weapon which could be effectively dispatched from around the immediate periphery of the U.S.S.R.?
§ LORD CARRINGTONMy Lords, I do not think my noble friend should ask me this afternoon to agree to anything. If he can wait until next week, we may perhaps discuss these matters then.
§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHMy Lords, before that happens next week, I hope that we shall be very careful about putting questions of that kind at this stage. That question went very far indeed on the matter of our going into a sort of agreement with France as to whether she should become an independent nuclear Power.
§ LORD CARRINGTONMy Lords, my noble friend's question may have gone very far indeed, but my answer did not.
§ LORD BOOTHBYMy Lords, in view of the fact that the question has been put, will the noble Lord bear in mind that neither General de Gaulle nor Her Majesty's Government would ever contemplate so disreputable a deal as the one which was suggested?