§ 2.54 p.m.
THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS (THE EARL OF HOME)My Lords, with the permission of the House I should like to make a statement about Egyptian compensation. Some months ago I promised noble Lords that I would put before the House proposals for a final settlement of claims arising from the nationalisation and sequestration of property by the Egyptian Government following the Suez operation. In laying before your Lordships the following scheme Her Majesty's Government have had very much in mind the points made in debate in this House and in another place.
The Government have five proposals. First, we propose to lay before the House an Order in Council that would provide that compensation on assessed claims against the Egyptian Compensation Fund should be paid on the following increased and final scales: on the first £10,000 of each claimant's assessed losses, 100 per cent.; on the next £40,000, 75 per cent.; on the next £450,000, 50 per cent.; on the next £500,000, 30 per cent.; on the next £1 million, 25 per cent.; and on the part of any claim exceeding £2 million, 20 per cent. Of course, the 100 per cent. on the first £10,000 and the 75 per cent. on the first £40,000 will operate right through the scale.
This new scale will give a 100 per cent. payment to over 90 per cent. of the 542 claimants and substantial increases to all the other categories up to £2 million. Claims exceeding £2 million will also benefit by the increased percentages to the extent of an extra basic payment of £176,000 on the lower parts of their claims. We estimate that to enable the Foreign Compensation Commission to pay compensation on these scales, Her Majesty's Government will need to pay into the Egyptian Compensation Fund about £5,500,000.
Secondly, we propose to lay before the House an Order in Council that will enable the Foreign Compensation Commission to pay on the same scale claimants in respect of certain additional claims, which, although arising out of the Suez incident, could only be registered but could not receive compensation under the Orders in Council following on the Anglo-U.A.R. Financial Agreement of 1959. We estimate that this will require approximately a further £1 million.
Thirdly, we propose that the balance of approximately £35,000 by which the compensation paid by the U.A.R. for the British officials dismissed in 1951 fell short of the sums advanced to the Officials' Association by Her Majesty's Government should be written off. We further propose to waive the repayment of £8,904 advanced by Her Majesty's Government to the Association for the payment of legal expenses and, as a final settlement, to make an additional grant to the Association of £200,000.
Fourthly, we propose to allocate up to £500,000 for grants towards the payment of agents fees and expenses by owners of desequestrated property who have had to employ agents to negotiate the release of their property and the transfer of assets.
Fifthly, we have carefully considered the difficulties of those British nationals who were obliged in 1956, at very short notice, to abandon their property in Egypt, where it was then sequestrated. This was the point made by my noble friend Lord Lloyd and others on the various occasions upon which we have discussed this.
This property—much of which is not in liquid form—has now been desequestrated, and in most cases returned to its owners or their agents, and they still 543 remain its legal owners. Some of them cannot use it or derive any benefit from it—apart, of course, from the first £E.5,000 which they can now transfer to this country. We propose to make available up to £2½ million to relieve, by way of grants, cases of comparative hardship among these persons, as well as to assist with certain other kinds of claims (such as compensation for severe personal injury) that will not be eligible for compensation out of funds distributed by the Commission.
We propose to set up an independent Committee to investigate cases of hardship among owners of immobilised assets and to make recommendations for grants.
Your Lordships will be aware that the Foreign Compensation Bill, which the Speaker may well certify as a Money Bill, has been under consideration in another place. The Bill is due for Report and Third Reading to-morrow and should be received by this House on the same day or on Thursday. Arrangements have therefore been made for your Lordships to consider the Bill during the course of next week, when I hope it will pass through all its stages in time to receive the Royal Assent before the House rises.
My Lords, I was anxious to make this statement myself before I go to the N.A.T.O. Council and to the Bahamas because I promised your Lordships to do my best to make a proposal which would satisfy your Lordships and bring this matter to an end.
VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLS BOROUGHMy Lords, I am sure we should all like to thank the noble Earl, the Foreign Secretary for the statement he has made, and to say at once that, in all the circumstances, it is to be regarded as a generous settlement of the claims which are outstanding arising out of the unfortunate circumstances which we all know about. As to the rapidity with which this Money Bill would become law, I think it will largely depend on Members of your Lordships' House as to how long we want to take to discuss it. For my part, I should like to see it passed as rapidly as possible.
LORD LLOYDI beg the noble Earl's pardon. Particularly, I should like to thank him personally, because I know the amount of trouble he himself has taken to obtain some advance on what has been a very slow and difficult matter. It is a little difficult at short notice on what is, I think he will admit, an extremely complicated affair, especially in view of the two categories of claimants and the fact that I believe a great number of claims have still not been finally formulated, to assess how far the Government have gone, particularly with regard to the sequestrated claimants. I would have said, having heard the statement, that those whose property has been nationalised have fared very well and have been treated generously. I should prefer to reserve judgment on the others, because, without studying the statement further, I think it would be difficult to form a conclusion. Perhaps when we have had a little longer to study the matter it might be possible to have a short debate on it, if we felt there were any points which needed raising.
§ LORD KILLEARNMy Lords, I should like to associate myself with the thanks which have been expressed to the Minister. We are all most grateful to him and to his Department. We have caused him a lot of trouble. It has dragged on for years and years, and it has been a most tiresome subject. We have known his heart has been with us in a lot of it, but it is not always easy to wring blood out of the Treasury stone. I feel that we owe him a great debt of gratitude, and that is very genuinely said. Having said that, it is very difficult, as my noble friend Lord Lloyd has said, to say much about the scheme, because we have had only a few minutes to look at it. It is quite involved. Speaking, as I do, for the people in whose claims I am interested, there must always be a tendency to look a gift horse very carefully in the mouth before expressing 545 complete joy and satisfaction. For instance, I see that the document says that it is in final settlement. We all hope it is in final settlement, but it should be in fair settlement. That is what we all want, and it is what the Minister himself wants.
I do not wish to get involved in facts and figures now, because this is not the occasion, but, on the face of it, from a very quick glance at this document, I should say that the scheme involves a contribution from public funds of about £10 million. That may be quite wrong, but it is roughly what I make it. We have got £27½ million from Egypt, and we were told last week we had the interest of £2½ million, so that is roughly £30 million. On the other hand, we were very conveniently told by the noble Earl, Lord Dundee, last week that there were assessed claims of something like £76 million.
§ LORD COLYTONUnassessed.
§ LORD KILLEARNYes, I think the assessed claims are about £44 million. Against that we have in the kitty, if I may put it that way, £29½ million from Egypt and the £10 million extra, which makes approximately £40 million, and there is a shortfall of £46 million outstanding. So on the face of it, it is not a particularly good deal from the claimants' point of view. I do not want to get involved in the facts and figures, because there will be an opportunity for that later on, but I do think there is a good deal more to be said for the claimants than is said in this scheme, grateful as we are for it.
I am particularly grateful for the reference to the unfortunate people who have their assets still in Egypt. That is a real puzzler. They cannot get their stuff out, so what is the good of £5,000 down and possession of their goods in Egypt which they cannot touch? That problem still remains, so far as I can make out. I think it is touched on here, but it is not finally cleared up. Anyhow, I revert to what I started by saying: namely, that we are all most grateful to the noble Earl for what he has done for us. It is not quite what we hoped for, but that will not surprise him.
THE EARL OF HOMEMy Lords, I am most grateful to my noble friend who has taken so much interest in this matter. I 546 am not sure whether or not he called me a gift horse with a heart of stone. His mathematics are quite good, but he will notice that a very large amount of the assessed claims are claimed by large companies or firms, and, as I have said, over 90 per cent. of the people will get 100 per cent. of their claims. In answer to my noble friend Lord Lloyd, I have given particular attention to the people who suffer hardship from sequestrated property, and we have calculated that the sum of £2½ million ought to cover these claims.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYMy Lords, as one who has been concerned in these affairs since the Suez incident, I should like to add my thanks to the Foreign Secretary for the immense trouble he has taken over these unhappy people. It is very difficult at this short notice to follow the exact details of the scheme, but I can assure him that we will look into them very carefully before the Bill comes before the House.
VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLS BOROUGHMy Lords, I should like to have an understanding on this matter with the noble Viscount the Leader of the House. He knows that we have been told, through the usual channels, that the Government's business arrangements will entail our sitting late on a number of the interim stages of Bills between now and Christmas. I want to see the Foreign Secretary's request fulfilled and this important legislation passed and operative before Christmas. I hope, therefore, that all sections of the House will bear these two things in mind. I think it is a very generous settlement.
§ VISCOUNT HAILSHAMMy Lords, I am grateful for that to the noble Leader of the Opposition. Of course, I share his view about it, but, naturally enough, I am in the hands of the House in this as in other matters.