§ LORD MERRIVALEMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they are aware that the British Transport Police Federation have not been given the opportunity to consider the Newsam Report on Transport Police Establishment and whether Her Majesty's Government will give an assurance that the British Transport Commission will not take any action which might prejudice the scheme, for the organisation of the transport police, until submitted and approved by the Minister.]
§ THE PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY, MINISTRY OF TRANSPORT (LORD CHESHAM)My Lords, as the noble Lord is aware, a scheme for the reorganisation of the transport police will, in due course, be submitted to my right honourable friend in accordance with Section 69 of the Transport Act, 1962. It is not clear to me how any action taken meanwhile by the British Transport Commission or, indeed, the Railways Board 136 could prejudice the scheme, particularly as my right honourable friend has power to approve it with or without amendment.
§ LORD MERRIVALEMy Lords, while thanking my noble friend for his Answer, which in effect does not cover the two points I raised, and while recognising that in June and July of this year he took a very kind and close interest in the welfare of the British Transport Police, may I ask whether he would not agree that the timing of the British Transport Commission is wrong in so far as there is to be consideration now of reducing the establishment of the British Transport Commission Police from a strength of 2,953 to 2,370? It would seem to me that this is a very drastic decrease in establishment, and that the uncertainty surrounding all this is having a very worrying effect upon the morale of the Transport Police themselves, and also that it would be detrimental to the efficiency of the police.
§ LORD CHESHAMMy Lords, my noble friend is asking me to comment on a matter of their own management by what is now the British Transport Commission, and giving details of which he apparently has some private knowledge. That comment, I fear, I cannot make.
§ LORD MERRIVALEBut, my Lords, cannot Her Majesty's Government give some guidance to the British Transport Commission in this respect? Her Majesty's Government must certainly know that there is this recommendation. Is it in order that this recommendation of the Newsam Committee should be implemented before the vesting date, which is January 1?
§ LORD CHESHAMMy Lords, again I am asked to comment on what is a matter of day-to-day management by the British Transport Commission as it at present stands and the British Railways Board as it will become in due course. I do not think that even my noble friend would wish the whole process of management, and efficient management at that, to come to a standstill until such time as the scheme which they are to produce by Statute is produced to the Government. He refers to this Newsam Report. He should refer to it in inverted commas because to call it a "Newsam Report" rather implies the connotation of 137 some kind of official committee instead of the Board's own internal consideration of what should be done. I cannot give an assurance on this matter, but I feel myself that if any action should be planned on the British Transport Commission's, or the new Board's own internal researches, they would be bound to consult with the Police Federation, as they are accustomed to do.