§ 2.35 p.m.
VISCOUNT ELIBANKMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government (1) whether the new British representative on the Krupp mixed Committee set up to consider applications by Dr. Alfried Krupp von Bohlen and Halbach for the sale of his coal mines and steel mills under the 1953 Allied Deconcentration Agreement has yet been appointed, and, if not, when will the appointment be made; and (2) Whether they will state the present estimated nominal value, including reserves, of the assets remaining to be sold under the Agreement.]
§ THE JOINT PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS (THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNE)My Lords, no British representative was appointed to take the place of the late Sir Edward Jackson on the Mixed Committee. Herr Krupp's application for a further extension in time will necessitate a meeting of the Committee before January 31 next year to consider this application. Her Majesty's Government will therefore appoint a new British member as soon as possible. The answer to the second part of the noble Viscount's Question is that the present estimated nominal value, including reserves, of the Rheinhausen company (which comprises all the assets still subject to disposal) is £35,600,000.
VISCOUNT ELIBANKMy Lords, I beg to thank the noble Marquess for his Answer. May I ask him this question, which arises directly out of his Answer? 1028 May we assume that Law 27 of the Bonn Convention, which governs the implementation of the 1953 Agreements, is still in force? May I ask the noble Marquess this further question: is he aware that, despite the statement of Herr Krupp in 1953-namely,
I have signed an undertaking not to produce coal and steel and I will stick to it",Herr Krupp is now using his huge assets, of which he ought to have been deprived, to compete with British exporters in markets all over the world?
§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEMy Lords, the answer to the first of the noble Viscount's supplementary questions is that the Law is still in force. The answer to the second question is this: Herr Krupp's undertaking was that he would not use the proceeds of sale to produce coal and steel. It did not bind him on what he is doing at the moment.
§ LORD OGMOREMy Lords, is it not a fact that he is not supposed to be doing anything at the moment? Under the Law, the great Krupp complex is supposed to have been already broken up, and of course he should not be doing anything of that kind because he is not supposed to be doing it. Secondly, can the noble Marquess inform the House what instructions the Government propose to give to the gentleman who is going to be our representative on this Committee?
§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEMy Lords, with great respect to the noble Lord, they are two quite separate questions. With regard to the first is question, Herr Krupp s allowed to conduct his business as at present until it is possible to arrange for a sale of such parts of his assets, Rheinhausen, as can be disposed of. That is the answer to the first question. With regard to the second question, Her Majesty's Government do not give instructions to the representative on the Mixed Committee. He is there in one capacity and one capacity only, and that is, in concert with his colleagues on the Mixed Committee, to decide whether or not an extension should be granted. That is his purpose on the Committee, and he is given no instructions whatsoever by Her Majesty's Government.
§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILLMy Lords, could the noble Marquess say 1029 why this particular war criminal is in a particularly privileged position; why he is allowed to conduct his dangerous business? Why is it that he, of all people, is given such privileges?
§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEMy Lords, I dare say the noble Lady will remember that it was during the time of the Labour Government that the question of the judgment on Herr Krupp came up. Herr Krupp was in fact judged by an American court, and it was agreed that the sentence which was originally given should be reduced and eventually he was exonerated. That really is the position so far as Herr Krupp is concerned.
§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILLDid the noble Marquess say "exonerated"?
§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEExonerated is, perhaps, an overstatement; but the sentence which was originally given to him was cut off.
§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILLRemitted?
§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNERemitted—that is the word. I am grateful to the noble Baroness.
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, is the noble Marquess aware that a statement was made in Germany by a Minister of the West German Government, in which he appeared to condone the position of Herr Krupp in not carrying out his undertakings? Have Her Majesty's Government made any representations to the West German Government?
§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEMy Lords, as the noble Lord is aware, Her Majesty's Government are in no way responsible for statements made by Ministers of foreign countries.
VISCOUNT ELIBANKMy Lords, may I ask the noble Marquess whether he is aware that at the recent celebrations of the Krupp's firm at Essen a lot of sympathy was expressed for Krupp by Professor Erhard, Doctor Adenauer's Vice-Chancellor, and other speakers, some of them in the German Government, but no sympathy at all was expressed for the 12,000 slave workers who worked for the firm during the war?
§ LORD KILLEARNMy Lords, may I ask the noble Marquess a question arising out of a statement I heard him make five minutes ago, to wit, that the British representative on this Mixed Committee has no instructions whatever from Her Majesty's Government? If so, is that not a very strange position for any British representative to find himself in?
§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEMy Lords, perhaps I did not make myself clear to your Lordships. As I have tried to explain to your Lordships, our representative on the Mixed Committee has to decide in concert with his colleagues whether or not Herr Krupp should be given an extension of time. So, in so far as he receives any instructions at all, he is told that that is his purpose, his function, in the Mixed Committee. I hope I have now made myself clear.
§ LORD KILLEARNI thank the noble Marquess.