HL Deb 23 November 1961 vol 235 cc945-8

3.11 p.m.

LORD PEDDIE

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what steps have been taken to implement the recommendations of the Peech Committee on Solid Smokeless Fuels. (Cmnd. 999).]

THE MINISTER WITHOUT PORTFOLIO (LORD MILLS)

My Lords, as my right honourable friend the Minister of Power said in another place, the Government welcomed the Report of the Committee on Solid Smokeless Fuels (Cmnd. 999). The Report has now been fully considered by Government Departments in consultation with the Gas Council, the National Coal Board and other organisations; and considerable progress has been made in implementing its recommendations.

Supplies of good quality coke suitable for burning in improved grates are adequate to meet the rising demand. The gas industry has greatly increased its production of premium fuels, which are specially reactive and can be burnt on any open grate. I am glad to say that capacity is now available to meet the Committee's estimates of the possible demand for these fuels in 1962, and that there is a good prospect of supply keeping pace with demand in subsequent years.

Looking to the longer term, the National Coal Board is developing two new types of premium smokeless fuel, one at Birch Coppice in Warwickshire and the other at Graigola in Glamorganshire. The National Advisory Committee on Smokeless Fuels, under the chairmanship of my right honourable friend the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Power, is keeping the supply position under close review.

LORD PEDDIE

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his reply, but I wonder whether he is aware that the total number of premises in the smoke control areas has risen from 18,000 in 1957 to, I believe, about 380,000 last year—a reasonable rate of progress and one which we should like to see accelerated. Could an assurance be given that the availability of stocks and the rate of production of acceptable smokeless fuel are adequate to meet what we should hope to be a substantial increase in the number of areas covered by the Smoke Control Order?

LORD MILLS

My Lords, I think I can go even further than that. The Ministry of Power are able to supply smokeless fuels for an accelerated programme of smokeless zones.

LORD PEDDIE

My Lords, I hesitate to continue pressing on this point, but whilst I am glad of those assurances, there is no doubt at all that the general impression among consumers is that there is a considerable shortage of reactive fuels. There may be a reasonable supply of coke, but in popular parlance that is described as "cinders", and not acceptable to the consumer. In the Peech Report, about which I asked the Question, there was an indication that they had anticipated a shortage of suitable smokeless—

SEVERAL NOBLE LORDS

Question!

LORD PEDDIE

The question is that the Peech Report itself indicates that there would be a shortage of three-quarters of a million tons by 1962. Would the noble Lord give an indication whether that estimate was a fair one, in the light of certain subsequent developments?

LORD MILLS

My Lords, I have already said that the Ministry of Power anticipate being able to meet the demand in 1962 with suitable fuels to meet smokeless zone conditions.

LORD TAYLOR

My Lords, does the word "suitable" include or exclude coke? That is really the question.

LORD MILLS

The word "suitable", my Lords, includes suitable coke.

LORD PEDDIE

I would point out, my Lords, that coke is not considered as being suitable.

LORD HAWKE

My Lords, could my noble friend give the public any assurance that the present extremely high price of Phurnacite, one of the principal smokeless fuels, is likely to be reduced in the future?

LORD MILLS

My Lords, I am not quite sure that that arises out of the Question; nor could I answer it without notice. It is true, of course, that if everyone in the country wanted Phurnacite there would not be enough to go round. But there is suitable fuel to go round.

LORD HAWKE

My Lords, I do not think my noble friend quite heard my point. I was asking whether there was any chance of the very high price being reduced. It is £15 or —16 a ton at the moment.

LORD MILLS

My Lords, I intended to convey to my noble friend that I would want notice of that question.

BARONESS SUMMERSKILL

My Lords, would the noble Lord say whether this suitable fuel is available in every part of the country?

LORD MILLS

Yes, my Lords; that is my information.

LORD REA

My Lords, I understood the noble Lord to say that two types were being investigated. Can he indicate what are the characteristics of these two types and how they differ?

LORD MILLS

My Lords, I referred to two types in the longer term. The National Coal Board are developing two new types of smokeless fuels, looking to the future. As a matter of fact, it will be another four years before they are ready, but it just shows that everyone is looking forward. I am sorry that I cannot tell the noble Lord of the characteristics of them.

LORD MORRISON OF LAMBETH

My Lords, can the noble Lord say whether these substitute fuels give a healthy flaming flame, instead of a mere glow? Is the noble Lord aware that I have an excellent Lancashire wife who makes first-class Lancashire coal fires, and they have flame, heat and life in them? We are in weekly dread (if I may be permitted this reactionary observation) that our excellent Labour Borough Council of Woolwich will drop down on us and make our ward a smokeless zone.

LORD MILLS

My Lords, I assume the noble Lord is afraid of getting away from the red flame.

BARONESS HORSBRUGH

My Lords, is it not the case that if you have a nice flaming flame, you then have smoke?