HL Deb 03 May 1961 vol 230 cc1259-61

2.36 p.m.

LORD FRASER OF LONSDALE

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government if they can now make a further statement on the encouragement and use of enclosed stoves and the progress that has been made in the production of smokeless fuels.]

LORD HASTINGS

My Lords, the Government have been reviewing the general position of solid smokeless fuels in the light of the Report of the Peech Committee. My right honourable friend hopes to make a progress report in another place in the near future. The noble Lord can rest assured that the Government are well aware of the contribution which enclosed stoves can make to the Clean Air Campaign, particularly in those areas where the supply of open fire coke may present difficulties as the campaign develops. The Government have already drawn the attention of local authorities to the merits of closed stoves, and the British Standards Institution is now at work on a specification for suitable fuels.

LORD FRASER OF LONSDALE

My Lords, while congratulating Her Majesty's Government on giving me a more satisfactory answer to this Question than has been possible on those occasions in the last two years on which I have asked it, may I ask the noble Lord whether he and the Government realize that, apart from the benefits of clean air, it might pay the nation to spend quite a large sum of money to find out how to burn coal better in enclosed stoves rather than to subsidise the coal industry, which does not please the taxpayer or the industry?

LORD HASTINGS

I think the noble Lord will find, when my right honourable friend makes his statement quite soon in another place, that he will have something to say about this matter of enclosed stoves. As for that part of the question which dealt with finding means of producing fuel for enclosed stoves, that, I think, was the basis of the noble Lord's own Question on July 20, 1959.

LORD FRASER OF LONSDALE

And the year before.

LORD HASTINGS

It was then explained that no method had yet been found of burning small industrial coal efficiently in closed stoves, because it is not smokeless; and there is still nothing further to report in this regard. Nevertheless, it may be of interest to the noble Lord to know that the Coal Board market annually 2½ million tons of fuel suitable for closed stoves. They have also reached the pilot plant stage in the production of new smokeless fuels, though in this case for the open fire, and they hope to produce 1 million tons of these new smokeless fuels by 1965.

BARONESS SUMMERSKILL

My Lords, would the noble Lord give in a Written Answer the names of those towns which are consuming a high proportion of smokeless fuel in relation to their populations, and the names of the industrial towns which have failed to implement the Act?

LORD HASTINGS

I am afraid I cannot answer that question to-day.

BARONESS SUMMERSKILL

No: but could the noble Lord give it in a Written Answer?

LORD HASTINGS

Yes, my Lords. If the noble Lady would put that Question down, I have no doubt the answer could be given.

VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGH

My Lords, arising out of the first Answer of the noble Lord to the Question on the Order Paper, I take it that there is no intention of giving preference to enclosed stoves as such. Is it not very much preferable that we should have available proper supplies of smokeless fuels which can be used in open grates, especially those of the new type, which distribute the warmed atmosphere more evenly?

LORD HASTINGS

I am grateful to the noble Viscount for that question. As he is probably aware, the grants being given at the moment—40 per cent. from the Government and 30 per cent. from the local authorities—are limited to what is reasonably necessary to enable the householder to comply with the Smoke Control Order. They refer usually to the cost of converting existing open fires to enable them to burn coke or other smokeless fuels, and do not relate to the full cost of installing closed stoves. But this matter will be referred to, I imagine, in the Minister's statement.

LORD DYNEVOR

May I ask the noble Lord: is he not aware that it is perfectly possible to burn anthracite in open grates now without conversion?

LORD HASTINGS

That may be quite true, bat this conversion is not merely of existing open fires but also covers the replacement of old-fashioned fires by open, modern grates.

LORD LAWSON

I think the noble Lord said that there was to be a Report upon this matter. Can he tell us when we shall have that Report?

LORD HASTINGS

Did I say that there was to be a Report? No; my statement is based on the Report of the Peech Committee. That was a Report of the Committee on Solid Smokeless Fuels, which was published as a White Paper in April, 1960—Cmnd. 999. I said there is to be a statement by my right honourable friend reporting progress—in other words, decisions and the progress made—based on the findings of that Committee.

LORD FRASER OF LONSDALE

When?

LORD HASTINGS

In the very near future: within, I think I can say, not more than two or three weeks.

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