§ 2.55 p.m.
§ LORD LUCAS OF CHILWORTHMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government the cost of the "goodwill" advertising by the Central Electricity Generating Board, which appears to have as its purpose the persuasion of the public to tolerate the placing of electricity pylons in Britain's most beautiful valleys; and whether, in view of the need to curtail wasteful expenditure by nationalised industries, they will instruct the Authority to cease this expenditure forthwith.]
§ LORD HASTINGSMy Lords, the purpose of these advertisements is to explain to the public the problem with which the Board is faced in extending the main transmission system required to meet the increasing demand for power, taking into account its amenity obligations. Subject to the Board exercising reasonable restraint in its advertising expenditure, it is for the Board to decide what is justified in these circumstances. My right honourable friend is satisfied that the Board is exercising reasonable restraint. Although the Board's accounts are not yet published, I understand that during the year ended March 31, 1961, the Board spent about £320,000 on public relations and publicity. My right honourable friend would not feel justified in asking the Board to provide published information about the cost of particular parts of these activities.
§ LORD LUCAS OF CHILWORTHMy Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for giving me the information that the Central Electricity Generating Board have spent £320,000 of the taxpayer's money, is he aware that the particular advertisement to which I am referring is a series depicting a hand holding a pylon, with the caption "Where would you put it?" There may be varied answers to that question, but the Minister of Housing and Local Government gave the Generating Board the answer about two weeks ago: "I should put it underground." Does the noble Lord not think that, instead of this wasteful expenditure, which we all deplore in a number of the nationalised industries, this "brainwashing" activity—and that is all it can 'be characterised—to condition the taxpayer into finding this money, the money would be far better allocated towards reducing the cost of electric current to the taxpayer?
§ LORD HASTINGSMy Lords, the first thing I would say in reply to the noble Lord is that the last way of reducing the cost of the supply of electricity to consumers is to put all the transmission lines in England underground, because that would immediately put up the cost. That is the most expensive thing we could possibly do. The business of the Board's Public Relations Department is to explain to the public the difficulties. It invites them to read this admirable pamphlet on the preservation of amenities, with which the Board is especially charged. The pamphlet has been produced by Sir Cristopher Hinton and Sir William Holford, and shows the public the difficulties. Pylons have either to be put all the way on the top of a ridge, or partly on top and lower down or made to thread an intricate course through the valleys. But it is certainly a very legitimate objective of the Board to put out this sort of publicity, because it is only helping the ordinary people who are to be supplied with electricity to make up their minds how they want to receive it.
As for "brainwashing", really the noble Lord should remember what he himself said on April 2, 1957, when he deplored the technical language used in a Government White Paper of that time, and suggested that pictorial displays by which the Government can carry with 1269 them the people of this country should be made. He went on to say that the sort of publication he had in mind was one—and I use his own words [OFFICIAL REPORT, Vol. 202, col. 1004]:
if I may use a rather offensive phrase, that has been written down to the mentality of the general public…It is such a scientific subject that somebody must find a way of putting this over in schoolboy language, with pictures, if you like, so that the noble Lord, Lord Mills, can carry the public with him.That is precisely what the noble Lord is complaining about.
§ LORD LUCAS OF CHILWORTHMy Lords, if the noble Lord will forgive me, that is precisely what I am not complaining about. I challenge the noble Lord to produce to your Lordships any one word of mine over the whole of the time I have been in your Lordships' House when I have advocated the vandalism which has been practised by the Electricity Generating Board in despoiling the countryside by these pylons. Why, I even went so far, during the period which the noble Lord has just quoted, of accusing his noble friend Lord Mills of having a "Mills Circus" that went about despoiling the countryside by putting up these pylons.
§ LORD HASTINGSMy Lords, I am sure that my right honourable friend the Minister, who, after all, is a countryman, if anybody is, would not be party to despoiling the countryside in the way the noble Lord has indicated. The noble Lord should bear in mind that these transmission lines are not all just going through one of these valleys, to which he refers, and out the other end, and that many of thorn are overhead distribution lines for the people who live in the valleys. Surely, one of the aims of the Board is rural electrification, and not only electrification for people in the cities. We had this matter out in a grand Scottish debate that I remember not long ago in connection with hydro-electric activities in Scotland. In that debate the benefits which people isolated in rural areas receive from this sort of development were made quite clear; and it was shown that in many cases the work of these authorities, by making new lakes and so on, had actually improved the countryside. I do not think the noble Lord is justified in saying that there is a general despoliation of our beautiful countryside.
§ VISCOUNT LONGMy Lords, I live in one of these valleys, and I should like to ask my noble friend whether he does not think there is too much centralisation. We have these pylons in my part of the world, going 60 miles from the centre to within five miles of my home, and they have really ruined the countryside. I wonder whether the Minister who is in charge of this great department would look into whether there is any reason why there should not be different centres, rather than having one main centre from which lines run out for miles.
§ LORD HASTINGSMy Lords, I am bound to tell my noble friend that that is very wide of the original Question; it deals with Government policy, and I cannot possibly reply to his question. However, no doubt my noble friend will take note of what he has said.
§ LORD STONHAMMy Lords, can the noble Lord say whether it is not the case that before any of these pylons are erected landlords and tenants are fully consulted about the matter?—and it takes a very long time. Is he also aware that we on this side of the House are much more concerned about the £1 million or more spent on "brainwashing" by private industry prior to the last Election?
§ LORD HASTINGSMy Lords, I do not think I need make any comment on the noble Lord's last remark, because that has nothing to do with the original Question. But I will say that I am grateful to him for bringing up the point he has in regard to the opportunity for individuals or bodies to object before these pylons are put up. One of the purposes of this advertising campaign is to explain the position to the people, so that they may not feel it is necessary to object, thereby saving many months on a public inquiry: and I am told that that sort of saving 'more than pays for the cost of the advertising.