§ 2.36 p.m.
§ THE EARL OF LUCANMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, for the purposes of recruiting campaigns for the Services, they will invoke the powers conferred on them by the Television Act, 1954, Section 9 (1), to require the Authority to broadcast any announcement.]
EARL JELLICOEMy Lords, these powers were intended to be used for official announcements, often of an urgent nature, such as police notices and flood warnings. It would not be appropriate to use them for the purposes of recruiting campaigns.
§ THE EARL OF LUCANMy Lords, would not the noble Earl agree that the maintaining of the Services fully manned is a matter of great national importance? Could not the Government, therefore, use the powers which are in the Act to require the Authority to display such advertisements as the Ministers give?
EARL JELLICOEMy Lords, I would, of course, agree with the noble Earl that a recruiting campaign is an urgent national matter. It is for that very reason that my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for War is making a national recruiting drive on television. But I thought I had already made it clear why the Government think it would be wholly inappropriate for them to try to get television advertising time "on the cheap" by invoking Section 9 (1) of the. Act of 1954.
§ LORD DERWENTMy Lords, is it not a fact that you already use the television for campaigns such as road safety campaigns? Does this campaign not seem merely like another such campaign?
EARL JELLICOEMy Lords, I confess that I am not aware of the precise details of the road safety campaign as it is used on television, but I understand that that was quite voluntary on the part of the television authorities—both the British Broadcasting Corporation and the Independent Television companies. There was no question of invoking these compulsory powers.
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, could the noble Earl tell the House how much this campaign has cost so far, and how much he anticipates it will cost during 1961?
EARL JELLICOEMy Lords, I think that the figures for the present financial year are of the order of £7,000 for the Air Force the pilot scheme and £58,000 for the Army campaign. I cannot give such precise figures for the forthcoming year, as the Air Force programme has yet to be decided and the scope of the Army programme has yet to be settled, but in the case of the Army it will be considerably more.
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, in view of the monopoly position created by the Government with regard to commercial television and the very large profits, to the tune of nearly £20 million a year, would the noble Earl not agree that it would have been reasonable to expect that the programme contractors would volunteer their services free of charge to the State?
EARL JELLICOEMy Lords, I think that that goes rather beyond the terms of the original Question which was put to me. However, I should like to take this opportunity of saying that both the B.B.C. and the I.T.V. companies are most helpful in including in their ordinary programmes material about the Services, like documentaries, which they judge to be worthy of public showing; and this provides the Services with free publicity, for which they and the Government are very grateful.
§ THE EARL OF LUCANMy Lords, could the noble Earl say whether the advertising time thus bought by the Government is included in the statutory eight minutes in the hour, or six minutes in the hour? And, secondly, is it bought at peak periods or off-peak periods, and what is the rate per minute?
EARL JELLICOEMy Lords, I am afraid that those are details about which I should have to write to the noble Earl. But I can say, on the second point, that it is usually at peak periods.
§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHMy Lords, are not the Government now still making a very substantial contribution to the I.T.V. Corporation? And in this matter of urgent and of public importance, was it not to be expected that you would be able—not to approach the matter from the point of view of, "We cannot ask for this publicity of our Forces' needs on the cheap" (those were the words of the noble Earl), but to get this publicity? In view of the statutory authority given to them and also the money paid to them, should you not have this proper service?
EARL JELLICOEMy Lords, I thought I had made it clear in answer to previous questions, but I should like to make it quite clear to the noble Viscount the Leader of the Opposition that the Government do not consider that these particular statutory powers apply in this case.
§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHWhy not?
EARL JELLICOEBecause they deal with very different types of announcement from the type of television advertising which this recruiting campaign constitutes.
§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHFor national needs.
§ THE EARL OF LUCANMy Lords, the noble Earl tells us that, but there is nothing in the Act to say that that is the case. Any Minister of the Crown may, by notice in writing, require the authority to broadcast such announcements as he thinks fit.
EARL JELLICOEMy Lords, that may be true, but it is certainly the advice given to me, which I have no reason for thinking to be wrong in any way, that Section 9 (1) of the Television Act, 1954, would not cover the informal type of recruiting advertising which has recently proved so successful. It might well be possible I would grant the noble Earl this—to devise programmes which would constitute the sort of official announcement foreseen in the 45 Act. But whether those programmes would draw in the recruits is quite another matter.
§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHMy Lords, is the noble Earl aware that the Opposition, at any rate, are very dissatisfied with the advice given to the noble Earl which causes his Answer in the House to-day, and we will hive to consider, through the usual channels, what further steps to take?
EARL JELLICOEMy Lords, I am sure that the House does not want more of its time taken up at this stage on this Question, but may I just put two points to the noble Viscount? First, it seems to me most important to keep a sense of proportion in this matter. Up to now, this very successful pilot scheme on the part of the Army has cost £58,000. It costs £100,000 to train a V-bomber pilot. Secondly, if I may say so, I think it is a pity in this case—and I say this with the diffidence of a very junior boy at this Box—that the Opposition in this House have not taken the generous attitude towards the Secretary of State's very imaginative campaign which the Opposition spokesmen took in another place.
§ THE EARL OF LUCANThe noble Earl must bear in mind that we are not complaining about the campaign.
§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHMy Lords, may I say that I speak for myself, and I do not think I have ever been found backward in advocating the maintenance of proper recruitment and the state of the Forces in general.