§ BARONESS WOOTTON OF ABINGERMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what steps are taken to ensure the safe keeping of firearms used in the training of cadets in the Air Training Corps and similar units.]
EARL JELLICOEMy Lords, weapons capable of being fired, which are used by units of the Air Training Corps or similar units, are kept, wherever practicable., in Service armouries of Regular or Reserve Forces establishments. If this is not practicable, these weapons are stored in a room or building which has barred windows and reinforced doors fitted with two mortice locks. In such cases arms are stored in racks with a metal cable or chain threaded through the trigger guard, the cable or chain being secured at the ends either to the rack or to the structure of the building. Bolts and magazines are removed and stored in locked boxes elsewhere.
§ BARONESS WOOTTON OF ABINGERMy Lords, I thank the noble Earl for his Answer. Is he aware that last week in a London juvenile court three boys, of the ages of 14, 15 and 16, pleaded guilty to removing, without breaking and entering, (they admitted stealing or receiving, as the case may be) a .22 Mosberg rifle and 260 rounds of ammunition from the store of an air training unit? Is he aware that the rifle was hidden under the mattress of the bed of one of the boys, in order to avoid detection by the parents, and that a charge against 1222 a fourth boy was dismissed when it appeared tat he had been given permission by a flight sergeant to take ammunition home? In these circumstances, does the Minister think that adequate steps are taken for the protection of the public?
EARL JELLICOEMy Lords, I am aware of this case. As the noble Lady knows, the boys concerned have been remanded in custody for fourteen days, and I am sure that the noble Lady will appreciate that it would not be right for me to comment on this particular case at this stage. However, I understand that a full investigation of this admittedly serious case is being made by the Air Ministry, and I will, of course, draw my right honourable friend's attention to the noble Lady's interest in it.
§ LORD OGMOREMy Lords, the noble Earl has told us what happens about rifles, but what steps are taken to ensure the safeguarding of ammunition?
EARL JELLICOEMy Lords, broadly speaking, they are the same steps. Ammunition is either kept in a Service armoury of the Regular or Reserve Forces or, if not, is stored separately in the training corps headquarters.
§ LORD OGMOREMy Lords, as the noble Earl says, there is a steel chain through the trigger guard of the rifles, but it is not possibly to have a steel chain for ammunition. What real steps are taken to see that no one is able to get at the ammunition stores? That is the point.
EARL JELLICOEMy Lords, so far as I know, the ammunition is kept in a locked steel container, and that container is kept either in a Service armoury, which is secure, or, if not, as securely as possible. I should perhaps mention that the War Office are taking steps now to equip the Army Cadet Force, wherever practicable, with special safes for the storage of arms and ammunition.
§ BARONESS WOOTTON OF ABINGERMy Lords, as the precautions to which the noble Earl refers were clearly not taken in this particular case, would he, without reference to this case, take steps to see that those precautions are, in fact, enforced generally?
EARL JELLICOEMy Lords, I have already said that I will draw my right 1223 honourable friend's attention to this particular case, the circumstances of which I do not wish to go into further but which were, of course, in clear breach of standing regulations.
§ LORD MANCROFTMy Lords, would not the noble Earl agree that there is increasing uneasiness throughout the country at the ease with which firearms of all sorts appear to find their way into the wrong hands? Would it not be possible for Her Majesty's Government to consider the Private Member's Bill at the present moment in another place to see whether it cannot be strengthened in some way to cover those points about which many Questions have been put in your Lordships' House in the last six months and which, as I say, are causing increasing uneasiness throughout the country?
EARL JELLICOEMy Lords, in answer to my noble friend I would say that the concern he feels is widely felt and is echoed by the Government, who I understand are carefully considering the Private Member's Bill in another place with what my noble friend has said in mind.