HL Deb 22 March 1961 vol 229 cc1149-53

2.36 p.m.

VISCOUNT ELIBANK

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the first Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question, was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will now announce for the benefit of Parliament and industry the conclusons reached in the recent inter-departmental discussions on future trade relations with China, the Soviet Union and Eastern bloc countries.]

THE MINISTER WITHOUT PORT-FOLIO (THE EARL OF DUNDEE

My Lords, as with many other matters, Departments consult each other all the time about trade relations with these countries, but it is not the practice to disclose the outcome of such consultations.

VISCOUNT ELIBANK

My Lords, I thank the noble Earl for his Answer. Are the Government aware that this is not merely a private issue between themselves and individual industrialists but a matter of vast importance to the whole of the export trade of this country? How can exporters make their plans for the future if they do not know the results of discussions of this kind?

THE EARL OF DUNDEE

However important it may be—and it is indeed very important—it seems to me a very stupid course of action to announce in advance what line you intend to take in trade negotiations with these countries.

VISCOUNT ELIBANK

The noble Earl says, "to announce in advance", but surely there have been some results from these discussions? Can he not let us know what those results are?

THE EARL OF DUNDEE

My Lords, I think that if the noble Viscount had listened to the original Answer, he would have understood that. They are consulting all the time about what line they will take when they have trade negotiations with China, Soviet Russia and various other countries. But it is not sensible to make public your own private discussions about the line you are going to take in trade negotiations in trying to make a bargain with another country.

VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLS-BOROUGH

My Lords, in view of the present export position of our country, can we have any measure of hope from the noble Earl that something is being done to improve it? What sort of date has the noble Earl's Department in mind as to when some announcement of a change for the better in our trade relationships with China may be expected? Our export trade is not in a very good condition.

THE EARL OF DUNDEE

My Lords, we have negotiations every year with all these countries. Negotiations with Czechoslovakia took place last month; with Hungary they are in progress; with Bulgaria we expect to have talks at the end of March; with Poland in the middle of May; with Russia during the summer and with Roumania in the early autumn.

THE EARL OF LUCAN

My Lords, the noble Earl has been talking about "negotiations", but negotiations are not mentioned in the Question. The word in the Question—

THE EARL OF DUNDEE

But they were mentioned by the noble Viscount in his supplementary question.

THE EARL OF LUCAN

The noble Viscount was asking whether the Government have any plans for their future trade relations.

THE EARL OF DUNDEE

My Lords, I have given your Lordships the dates on which these various negotiations are going to begin.

VISCOUNT ELIBANK

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the second Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they are aware that the figures show that the continued and very considerable growth in West Germany's imports from China, the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe is having the tendency to make it on the whole more advantageous for these countries to trade with West Germany than with the United Kingdom, and whether they are satisfied that all possible steps are being taken, by reducing restrictions on imports into the United Kingdom from Eastern bloc countries, to enable British manufacturers to compete with West Germany's lead in this respect.]

THE EARL OF DUNDEE

My Lords, Her Majesty's Government are aware that West German imports from China and the Soviet bloc countries (excluding inter-zonal trade with East Germany) rose from £123 million in 1958 to £169 million in 1960, compared with an increase of United Kingdom imports from those countries (excluding East Germany) from £117 million to £158 million in the same period. As the rate of growth of United Kingdom and West German imports has been very similar, the figures do not indicate a tendency of the kind suggested by the noble Lord.

As regards the second part of the Question, Her Majesty's Government are satisfied that controls of imports from Eastern bloc countries are being used consistently with the national interest to enable those countries to increase their sterling earnings and therefore their purchases from us.

VISCOUNT ELIBANK

My Lords, while thanking the noble Earl for his Answer, may I ask whether he is aware (it is impossible to bandy figures across the Floor of the House, but my figures would show some difference) that it is common knowledge in British industry that West Germany and other Common Market countries are giving greater encouragement and facilities, including those for imports, to their business men, than the British Government are giving to our business men? Does not that indicate why the figures, from my point of view at any rate, and, I think, from that of the Government, show this growth in favour of the Common Market countries?

THE EARL OF DUNDEE

My Lords, the figures which I have given to the noble Viscount show no appreciable difference in the rate of growth.

VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLS-BOROUGH

My Lords, is there not an outstanding case in which the Government have lost a £40 million contract in East Germany, which has now gone to a Common Market country—I believe to France—because we could not match up to what were the competitive credit conditions? Surely, when we begin to lose orders at £40 million a time, it is very serious.

THE EARL OF DUNDEE

My Lords, I understand that the contract has not yet been lost, and indeed has not yet been settled. But I hope that if the noble Viscount really wants information about it, he will put down a separate Question.

LORD REA

My Lords, could the noble Earl give an indication of what was the basic principle underlying the restriction of imports into the United Kingdom from Eastern bloc countries?

THE EARL OF DUNDEE

My Lords, do not think that that arises out of the noble Viscount's Question.