§ 2.35 p.m.
§ LORD TAYLORMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government the percentage of all persons in receipt of sicknes benefit, in the following age groups: 50–54, 55–59 and 60–64, who are suffering from chronic bronchitis.]
§ THE MINISTER WITHOUT PORTFOLIO (THE EARL OF DUNDEE)My Lords, medical certificates submitted in support of sickness benefit claims do not usually distinguish chronic from acute bronchitis. Of all persons in the three age groups mentioned who were receiving sickness benefit on May 30, 1959 (the latest date for which figures are available), some 11 per cent., 14 per cent. and 18 per cent., respectively were suffering from some form of bronchitis.
§ LORD TAYLORMy Lords, I thank the Minister for that Answer: I appreciate the difficulty in getting these figures. But do they not show that bronchitis is a very considerable form of disability, particularly among middle-aged and those in later middle-age? Is it not a fact that many of these folk could be in work, sheltered work, were it available? The noble Earl mentioned yesterday that a Committee was to sit to consider this problem of bronchitis. Will that Committee have power to look at the aspect I have mentioned, to see whether it is not the case that many of these people could be usefully employed in sheltered work, rather than sitting ill, or nominally ill, at home because there is no work for them?
§ THE EARL OF DUNDEEMy Lords, I think it is the case that bronchitis is 852 more responsible than any other single disease for disability and that a great many people who suffer from it could usefully work in suitable conditions. But the resettlement officers of the Ministry of Labour pay a great deal of attention to this matter and do their best to help bronchitics. There are about 400 employed in the Remploy factories, and I have no doubt that a few hundred more are employed in local authority workshops, for which there are no analysed figures. The inquiry which I mentioned yesterday, and to which the noble Lord referred in his supplementary question, begins in June. It is being conducted by the Ministry of Pensions, with the help of the other Ministries concerned, and also, we hope, of the doctors and local authorities.
§ LORD TAYLORMy Lords, I thank the Minister again. He spoke in terms of hundreds. I am afraid that the problem is measurable in tens of thousands of people who are suffering from this disease. The noble Earl did not answer my question about whether this inquiry would cover the provision of sheltered work for bronchitics in receipt of sickness benefit.
§ THE EARL OF DUNDEEMy Lords, that is no doubt the object of the inquiry. Its direct purpose is to get information.
§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILLMy Lords, could the noble Earl say what special provisions are made in those areas where the incidence is highest?
§ THE EARL OF DUNDEEMy Lords, I would say that that would probably depend upon the local authorities. Remploy would no doubt try to do more in a place where it is known that the incidence is higher.
§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILLMy Lords, I am inquiring about treatment in hospital.
§ LORD TAYLORMy Lords, again I thank the Minister. This problem is too big, unfortunately, for Remploy and the local authorities, so far as we are able to ascertain. What is needed is the co-operation of private industry to provide places for these bronchitics whose working capacity is severely limited.
§ THE EARL OF DUNDEEMy Lords, it certainly requires the co-operation of private industry, not only for the purpose of finding suitable employment but also in regard to registration as disabled persons. Very large numbers of bronchitis do not register, either because their medical practitioners do not advise them to do it—they do not think it would be worth while—or, maybe, because they think it is not much use registering since the opportunities of employment are not great enough.
§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILLMy Lords, the noble Earl referred to the responsibility of local authorities. Surely he is aware that the Ministry of Health are responsible for local hospitals, and I asked what special provisions they are now making in those areas where the incidence is highest.
§ THE EARL OF DUNDEEMy Lords, the question which I had in mind, and which I think the noble Lord, Lord Taylor, had in mind, is how to employ bronchitics who are disabled. If the noble Lady wants detailed information about the health aspect of the matter, it would probably be better if she puts down another Question.
§ LORD LATHAMMy Lords, is the noble Earl certain that there is sufficient co-operation between the Ministry of Health and the Ministry of Labour as regards finding employment for bronchitics?
§ THE EARL OF DUNDEEMy Lords, I do not know whether there is ever sufficient co-operation to achieve perfection between any two bodies of people who are engaged in the matter, but I do not know of any reason to think that there is any lack of co-operation which demands to be put right.
§ LORD LATHAMMy Lords, may I follow that up by saying that there is evidence to show that the absence of information from the Ministry of Labour leads to non-employment of bronchitics who are employable?
§ THE EARL OF DUNDEEMy Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for 854 giving me so much information. I only wish that I had given him a little more in return.
§ LORD TAYLORMy Lords, may I ask one last question? The noble Earl said that one of the troubles is that general practitioners do not advise bronchitics to register. Will he encourage them to register, because that would be most effective co-operation?
§ THE EARL OF DUNDEEMy Lords, I think that that is being done so far as possible; but the registration of disabled persons is, of course, entirely voluntary. We cannot make them register.