§ LORD TAYLORMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government if they will arrange for the Government Social Survey to make an investigation into the public attitude to a decimal system of coinage.]
77§ THE EARL OF DUNDEEMy Lords, the possibility of using the Social Survey was, in fact, considered by the British Association Committee, but the conclusion was reached that it would be more useful for the Committee to send out questionnaires direct to representative organisations. It is very doubtful, therefore, whether an opinion survey would be the most effective way of further illuminating this particular problem.
§ LORD TAYLORMy Lords, is the noble Earl aware of what he said last week—namely, that anyone who gets other people to express their views on this subject will be doing a service to Her Majesty's Government? Surely it is better to make a systematic study of views rather than rely on random gossip, which is what the noble Earl has invited us to do.
§ THE EARL OF DUNDEEMy Lords, one reason against using the machinery of the Social Survey Centre is that I do not think that they would be able to get a report done before November, which would be rather too late. As for independent efforts to stimulate the expression of opinion and discussion, I think they are of value and interest to everyone concerned. There are obvious objections to a poll organised by the Government, because that might be mistaken for a referendum; but independent action of this kind, which stimulates discussion, may be helpful.
§ LORD FRASER OF LONSDALEMy Lords, may I ask the noble Earl whether he would invite the Governors of the B.B.C., at their discretion, to consider whether they may not render a very valuable public service by using their most powerful media to inform the people about the short-term objections, and perhaps long-term advantages, of this scheme, and to deal with its very considerable complications?
§ THE EARL OF DUNDEEMy Lords, I am sure that the Governors of the B.B.C. will take note of the noble Lord's question.
§ LORD AMWELLMy Lords, may I ask what has happened to the final spirit of English individualism? Must English people cease to be English for good?
§ THE EARL OF DUNDEEMy Lords, all we want is to get English people to 78 take a little more interest in this question, so that we may have a little more help in deciding what they want.
§ LORD LAWSONWhat about the Scots?
§ LORD TAYLORMy Lords, is the noble Earl aware that I have good news for him? When I put the Question down I asked the Gallup Poll whether they would conduct such an inquiry, which they are going to do. The results will be ready by the end of March, which I hope will be time enough, and will be published in the Daily Telegraph.
§ THE EARL OF DUNDEEMy Lords, I think everybody will agree that a Gallup Poll is not an entirely reliable guide in all respects. It will, however, have the effect of stimulating public discussion, and in that way I think it may be very helpful. Therefore, I am very glad to hear what the noble Lord says. He has no doubt noted that other newspapers are doing similar things.
§ LORD STONHAMMy Lords, is the noble Earl aware that, following his appeal, a limited survey was conducted on television last week, and the only speaker unlikely to be represented on a Gallup Poll was a small boy who said that he thought the proposal was "awful". Can the noble Earl give an assurance that, whatever the Government decide to do in this matter, they will take the most careful steps to see that educational curricula are so arranged that, if a change is made, it does not turn out so awful for the children?
§ THE EARL OF DUNDEEMy Lords, the need for care which the noble Lord has emphasised is, of course, one of the reasons why we have not been more prompt in coming to a decision about this question. As for schoolchildren, there are two views on that. The prevailing view seems to be that arithmetic will be easier for them with dots.
LORD SOERSMy Lords, may I ask the noble Earl whether he does not agree, in view of the fact that people seem to find it so difficult to divide by any number except ten, that it would he desirable to divide the year into ten months, and no doubt, with modern scientific methods, slow down the rotation of the earth so that it will revolve only 100 times a year?
§ THE EARL OF DUNDEEMy Lords, conversely, it might be a great advantage if we could have 144 instead of 100, with a duodecimal system of numbers.
§ LORD LAWSONMy Lords, may I ask the noble Earl if he is aware that the most delicate point on this question is that the industrial workers should understand it? What the City thinks about it does not matter.
§ THE EARL OF DUNDEEMy Lords, I do not want to pre-judge the question. I have had a good many letters from industrial workers about this and, on the whole, the majority of them seem to be in favour of making a change. All that the Trade Union Congress said about it, when their evidence was asked for by the British Association committee, was that possible changes in the coinage would not affect trade union members any differently from other adult members of the community. That does not seem to get us much further.
§ LORD CONESFORDMy Lords, when Her Majesty's Government say that they desire to ascertain public opinion on this point, are they aware that precisely the same answer was given by Mr. Gladstone?