§ LORD COLWYNMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper. Before I put this Question, I must declare my interest in that I am Chairman of the Diesel Fume Abatement Society.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will take the advice of the Diesel Fume Abatement Society in an attempt to introduce methods to abate the menace of diesel fumes on the roads of Britain, to which attention was directed at the recent Annual General Meeting of the Automobile Association.]
935§ THE JOINT PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY, MINISTRY OF TRANSPORT (LORD CHESHAM)My Lords, my right honourable friend is always prepared to consider any proposals made to him for reducing this nuisance. Much is already being done. A regulation to control the use of the excess fuel device, often misused to obtain extra power at the expense of clouds of smoke, will be laid before your Lordships very shortly. Enforcement of the existing law is, however, the key to the problem, and the Ministry of Transport are arranging trials with smoke meters of different types to see whether a satisfactory method of roadside enforcement of the law can now be devised.
§ LORD COLWYNMy Lords, I thank the noble Lord very much for his Answer, but may I ask him if he will keep me informed by letter of the action Her Majesty's Government intend to take against the offenders?
§ LORD CHESHAMMy Lords, I shall be glad to co-operate with the noble Lord in this, and let him know whatever I can. At the same time, I should like to say that I look forward to receiving the advice referred to in his Question.
§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILLMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether it is a commonplace to-day for the ordinary police constable, if he observes this nuisance, to take the name and address of the offender?
§ LORD CHESHAMIt is a little difficult for me to say to the noble Lady that it is a commonplace, but there are quite a number of prosecutions each year for the offence.
§ LORD MERRIVALEWould my noble friend agree that it is not just a question of a smoky exhaust? Because even a well-maintained diesel engine will give off a high proportion of nitric oxide and nitrogen dioxide, and I am informed that nitrogen dioxide is a very strong bronchial and pharyngial irritant.
936 Would he also not agree that it is a very important problem, not just from the point of view, as I said, of a smoky exhaust, but also due to the fact that a diesel engine can give up to nearly ten times as much of these oxides and nitrogen as a petrol engine?
§ LORD CHESHAMIf what my noble friend says boils down to the fact that diesel exhaust makes you cough and your eyes smart, then I would agree with him. I am not quite as au fait with the chemical analysis of diesel smoke as he is. From what I can learn from the work done by the Medical Research Council, it appears that diesel fumes, although unpleasant—they make you cough and your eyes smart—are considerably less toxic (if that is the correct word in this connection) than petrol fumes.
§ LORD MERRIVALEMy noble friend will agree, will he not, that they do contribute to chronic bronchitis.
§ LORD CHESHAMMy Lords, it is not a question of whether I agree; but I have no evidence at the moment that it does. At the same time, I am not in possession of any evidence that it does not. I have no evidence, and I have been informed of nothing which enables me to agree positively with my noble friend.
§ LORD MERRIVALEMy Lords, would my noble friend agree that there is strong medical evidence that in fact it does?
§ VISCOUNT BRENTFORDMy Lords, having regard to the safety aspect of the matter, can my noble friend give any indication of when he hopes to be able to introduce the new regulation to which he has referred, because the situation is one of great urgency.
§ LORD CHESHAMYes, my Lords, we are aware of the urgency of the situation. The regulation I am talking about should be laid before your Lordships' House, I understand, within the next few weeks.