LICENSING BILL (Hansard, 22 June 1961)

EARL ST. ALDWYN
My Lords, I beg to move that this Bill be read a first time.

§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGH
My Lords, may I ask, by leave of the House—it is very early to raise it, I know, but it is important—what are the prospects for the carriage of this Bill through Parliament at this Session? At the same time, considering the importance of the Bill, and the discussions which have taken place in another place, with no Whips on, may I also ask whether it is not essential that we should know what the timetable is, and whether the Bill is likely to be carried?

§ VISCOUNT HAILSHAM
My Lords, I think the prospects are good. But I would certainly try to co-operate, through the usual channels, with the noble Viscount as to the timetable, and seek to meet the convenience of the House.

§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGH
We are so unhappy already about the mismanagement of the Government (I am not thinking in the least about the noble Viscount the Leader of this House, but the mismanagement of this Session of Government Business as a whole) that I do not think we ought to be required to lay on extra days and longer hours, and the rest of it, for legislation which does not go through.

§ VISCOUNT HAILSHAM
My Lords, I was glad the noble Viscount made no charge against me, but I do not think I ought to accept the general charge against the Government, either. I do not want to enter into controversial Party politics on a matter of this kind, but the noble Viscount cannot but be aware that there are members of my Party who put the trouble down to obstruction on the part of the Opposition.

§ LORD SILKIN
My Lords, may I ask the noble Viscount whether he can give an assurance that if the Licensing Bill 721 is proceeded with there will be adequate time to discuss it in this House, with all its implications, which are many.

§ VISCOUNT HAILSHAM
My Lords, I should certainly try to give such an assurance, and if the noble Lord feels that in any way we have sought to abridge a full discussion I hope he will come to me about it.

§ LORD MORRISON OF LAMBETH
My Lords, will the noble Viscount say whether the Government have worked out the number of columns spoken on the measures as to which he is unhappy owing to the activities of the Opposition; also how many columns have been spoken for the Government and against the Government about the Bills in another place by Government supporters. Is he suddenly shocked about the idea of an Opposition that has a little discussion about Bills? I have a recollection that he has done it himself in his time.

§ VISCOUNT HAILSHAM
My Lords, we all know that Governments want to get their business through and that all Oppositions are sure that they do not say a word more than is necessary. I was not seeking to canvass the merits of this discussion, which is one of the perennial features of Parliament in these islands, but all I was seeking to do was to tell the noble Viscount that there are two sides to most questions, and two sides to this.

VISCOUNT ALEXANDER. OF HILLSBOROUGH
Usually the right one.

§ LORD STONHAM
My Lords, can the noble Viscount say when it is proposed to move the Second Reading of the Licensing Bill?

§ VISCOUNT HAILSHAM
My Lords, I am told July 4.

§ LORD STONHAM
My Lords, will the Whips be off, as it is July 4?

§ VISCOUNT HAILSHAM
My Lords, not in this island.

§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGH
My Lords, I am not quite sure that the noble Viscount has answered us effectively on this last supplementary. Are the Whips to be off? They have been off in the other place, are they to be off here?

§ VISCOUNT HAILSHAM
I think the position is perfectly well understood. I think the noble Viscount is, in fact, mistaken about the position in the other place. The position was that the Government throughout had made their position plain but were rather less disturbed by revolts than they would be in ordinary cases.