PRESIDENT TSCHOMBE (Hansard, 13 June 1961)

§ VISCOUNT MASSEREENE AND FERRARD
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the first Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

§ THE JOINT PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS (THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNE)
My Lords, on May 1, six days after the detention of Mr. Tschombe, at Coquilhatville, when it was not clear on whose authority he had been detained, or whether he was in fact formally under arrest, Her Majesty's Representative at the United Nations was instructed to urge the United Nations authorities to use their good offices to secure the release of Mr. Tschombe and his return to the conference table. Subsequently, Mr. Bomboko, Congolese Foreign Minister, formally declared that Mr. Tschombe was held under arrest on the authority of the Congolese Government.
It was the opinion of the United Nations authorities that this matter involved a question of internal Congolese jurisdiction, in which it would not be proper for the United Nations to inter- 92 vene. The United Nations authorities have, however, informed us that they are trying to ensure that Mr. Tschombe is accorded proper treatment, and I understand that they have made representations to the Congolese Government in this sense.

§ THE EARL OF SWINTON
My Lords, may I ask whether, if it is not proper for the United Nations to intervene—although they seem to have intervened on a great many other occasions with little success—we have not either a Consul General or a Minister in Leopoldville, and whether it would not be competent, right and proper for him to intervene and try to secure Mr. Tschombe's release?

§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNE
My Lords, I appreciate the point that the noble Earl is making, but the answer must be, No; it would not be proper. One of our principal objects in the Congo is to see that interference from outside does not come into the life of the Congolese. That, surely, is the purpose of the United Nations. This is an internal domestic matter. When we were unclear about the position of Mr. Tschombe—whether he was under arrest by order of the authorities—we did approach the Secretary-General; but when it was declared that he was formally under arrest by the Government, then it became an internal matter for the Congolese authorities.

§ THE EARL OF SWINTON
My Lords, I am sorry to question the noble Marquess further, but he keeps on saying that as this is an internal matter in the Congo it would not be proper for the Secretary-General of the United Nations to make representations. What I have asked is whether it would not be proper for other diplomatic representatives to make representations, as is always done. If a Britisher is arrested in a foreign country, that is a matter of internal domestic affairs, but it does not prevent the British representative from making representations.

§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNE
Surely, my Lords, this is a quite different matter. The arrest of a British citizen in a foreign country would certainly be a question for the British authorities. But we are not here dealing with a British subject.

§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILL
My Lords, in view of the statement of the Secretary-General in New York yesterday, in which he said that the position in the Congo had greatly improved, and when, indeed, he hinted that it might be possible for Parliament to be convened in July, would it not be the height of folly at this moment to accede to the noble Earl's request?

§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY
My Lords, if it is indeed a fixed principle of Her Majesty's Government and the United Nations that there must be no interference in the internal affairs or countries, why is it that they do not apply the same principle to Angola as they apply to the Congo?

§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNE
My Lords, I think we are risking branching off on to a matter which may well be a subject of debate. I am sure the noble Marquess will appreciate that I have tried to answer the Question put down by my noble friend Lord Massereene and Ferrard, and I should prefer not to be dragged into these realms by the noble Marquess.

§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY
My Lords, I give notice that I will put down a Question on that specific point.

§ VISCOUNT MASSEREENE AND FERRARD
My Lords, I thank the noble Marquess for his extremely well-spoken reply, but may I ask Her Majesty's Government, if Mr. Tschombe is not returned to his people, who I understand require him, whether they can view with equanimity the likelihood that Katanga will fall under Communist domination, with serious consequences to Northern Rhodesia?

§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNE
My Lords, all along I think we have made it perfectly clear that we wish to see conditions of stability maintained and that in the Province of Katanga this stability should continue. The information that I have is that the situation in Katanga at the moment does not give grounds for great alarm. I hope that my noble friend may be assured by that information.