§ 3.2 p.m.
VISCOUNT ELIBANKMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the first Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, in view of the fact that this country is now short of some £200 million of exports to pay for all that it spends abroad, they will make it plain that they can no longer accept any embargoes on exports to China and the Soviet bloc except on munitions and items of direct military significance, thus removing restrictions which, directly and indirectly, gravely hamper our exports to these markets.]
§ THE JOINT PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS (THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNE)My Lords, as I informed the noble Viscount in my reply to his Question on April 25, United Kingdom exports to the Sino-Soviet bloc are only marginally affected by the small number of industrial items and materials on the Embargo List. The number of embargoed items is kept to the minimum consistent with our security, and, in consultation with our Allies, is under constant review in the 1086 light of current technological developments. Our trade with the Sino-Soviet bloc has been expanding steadily in recent years, and we hope this trend will continue. The 1960 figures show an increase of 25 per cent. over 1958. As I have told the noble Viscount, the principal limiting factor on our exports to the Sino-Soviet bloc is the amount of sterling available to them.
VISCOUNT ELIBANKMy Lords, I beg to thank the noble Marquess for his Answer. How can he say that the embargo has no limiting effect on the export trade, seeing that in the House of Commons on May 30 Mr. F. J. Erroll gave a table which showed that the spectacular increase in our exports to China from 1957 onwards from £10 to £32 million in 1960, was almost entirely in ferrous and non-ferrous metal products, special-purpose machine tools, and tractors, all of which were previously embargoed? May I ask this further question'? How long in the matter of the Chinese embargo are we to be tied to the overriding influence of America, which does no export trade with China at all but which, notoriously, is determined to put a brake on our export trade with that country?
§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEMy Lords, I do not suppose that the noble Viscount did it deliberately, but he did not in fact repeat the words used. I said that our exports were "only marginally affected" I did not say that they were not affected at all. As to what the noble Viscount repeated of what my right honourable friend said in another place, it is perfectly true that the list of embargoed items is steadily decreasing. But as to whether we are in any way tied to American policy, of course, that is perfectly untrue. The members who subscribe to COCOM are the members of N.A.T.O., minus Iceland and plus Japan. These members together agree what items should and should not be on the embargo list; and the items which are on the embargo list are the items which it is the considered view of the members could endanger the security of the countries concerned.
VISCOUNT ELIBANKMy Lords, but even so, that reinforces my argument that it is for Great Britain to go all out to put an end to this embargo. With regard to America, the noble Marquess 1087 said it was perfectly untrue. But it is just common knowledge that America has an overriding influence in this matter.
§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEMy Lords, the noble Viscount is very persistent. I think that I must remind him of this—he knows it just as well as I do, because he has studied the question—that in fact the limiting factor is shortage of sterling, and really there is nothing more to say on this matter.
§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILLMy Lords, in view of the noble Marquess's assurance on this matter, are we to understand that this very long list in the Journal of the Board of Trade for May is now quite out of date and that it has been substantially reduced? Can the noble Marquess tell us what things have been taken out of that list?
§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEMy Lords, I cannot anticipate for the noble Baroness what will be taken out of the list, but I think I said on a previous occasion that items are taken out, and also added, according to technological developments. The list at the moment stands at 118 items. In the middle of August it will be published, but I cannot tell the noble Lady exactly what figure it will stand at then. I hope that is fairly clear.
VISCOUNT ELIBANKMy Lords, is the noble Marquess aware that the shortage of sterling is a wonderful slogan, but it is not the governing factor in the situation?