HL Deb 24 July 1961 vol 233 cc837-50

3.50 p.m.

LORD ST. OSWALD

My Lords, I think it might be convenient at this stage of the proceedings if I were to read a statement which is being made by my right honourable friend the Postmaster-General in another place. The statement reads:

"Since the last general increase in Post Office tariffs took place in 1957, wage and price increases have added £55 million to the Post Office bill; no less than £25 million will fall in the current year. This consists mainly of increases in wage rates. I expect to absorb about 2/5ths of this £25 million.

"Even so, I must raise a further £25 million in a full year in order to maintain the financial soundness of the Post Office and to prevent a sharp increase in its dependence upon the Exchequer for capital.

"This means that I must increase charges. I have decided to raise £16½ million from the telecommunications services and £8½ million from the postal services.

"The tariff increases I am proposing apply either to services running at a loss, or to services which produce an adequate return on capital and where there is a high investment demand.

"The principal increases are:

"Telephones

"Rentals for telephone exchange lines will be increased by £2 per annum.

"Connection charges for exchange lines will be doubled.

I. TELECOMMUNICATIONS CHARGES
1. Changes to operate forthwith
Present Proposed
(a) Connection Charges £ s. d. £ s. d.
Maximum exchange line connection charge 5 0 0 10 0 0
Note: Connection charges for temporary telephone service will be increased proportionately subject to a maximum of £15.
(b) Exchange Lines in Country Districts
The additional rental hitherto payable when the chargeable length of an exchange line exceeds 3 miles is to be abolished, and replaced by an excess connection charge for new lines of £5 0s. 0d. per furlong of chargeable length in excess of 3 miles.
(c) Internal Removal Charges
Maximum charge for removal of telephone instrument 2 0 0 3 0 0
(d) Change-of-Apparatus Charges
Telephone instrument 15 0 1 10 0
Minor apparatus from 8 0 1 0 0
to 15 0

"Rentals for private switchboards, extensions and private circuits will be increased.

"I also propose to change the basis of charging for telephones more than three miles from the exchange. The excess mileage rental for existing and new subscribers will be abolished, but new subscribers will pay an increased initial connection charge related to distance and new construction.

"Inland Postage

"The basic printed paper rate will be increased from 2d. to 2½d., with rebates for large users.

"The basic charge for newspapers will be increased from 2½d. to 3d.

"The charges for parcels will be increased by 6d. all round.

"Details of the changes will be circulated in the OFFICIAL REPORT and for the convenience of Members copies will be available in the Vote Office later this afternoon."

For the convenience of your Lordships, they will be available in the Printed Paper Office. To return to the statement, it continues:

"Increases in connection charges, the abolition of the excess mileage rental, and two other minor changes will take effect as from 26th July. The remaining telephone changes will become operative on 1st November. The postal changes will take effect on 1st October.

"These proposals are consistent with the Government's aim of putting the finances of the nationalised industries on a sound basis and of reducing borrowing from the Exchequer."

My Lords, that is the statement.

Following are the details referred to:

2. Changes to operate from 1st November, 1961
Present Proposed
£ s. d. £ s. d.
(a) Exchange Line Rentals (per quarter) (per quarter)
Business lines
Exclusive 3 10 0 4 0 0
Shared 3 0 0 3 10 0
Residence lines
Exclusive 3 0 0 3 10 0
Shared 2 10 0 3 0 0
Exchange lines connected to a PBX owned and maintained by subscriber 3 5 0 3 15 0
Present Proposed
On exchange lines On PBXs On all installations
s. d. s. d. s. d.
(b) Internal Extension Rentals (per qtr.) (per qtr.) (per qtr.)
Plan 1, 1A, 1B, 1C 7 0 14 0 10 0
Plan 3 14 0 19 0 16 0
Plan 4
each additional socket 2 6 2 6 2 0
each additional plug-in telephone 7 0 14 0 9 0
Plan 5 and 5A 28 0 32 0 40 0
Plan 7 and 7A 14 0 14 0 25 0
Plan 8 14 0 19 0 16 0
Plan 8A 21 0 not available 36 0
Plan 9 not from 28 0 20 0
available to 49 6
Plan 10
including apparatus for intercepting one exchange line not from 25 0 26 0
available to 39 0
apparatus for each additional line intercepted not 1 6 6 0
available
Plan 11 14 0 28 0 20 0
Plan 12 and 12A 14 0 19 0 16 0
Extension terminated on a socket not 9 0 8 0
available
plug-in telephone for use with extension terminated on a socket not 5 6 9 0
available
Any other internal extension not 13 6 15 0
available
Note: Certain types of extensions are appropriate for PBXs but not for exchange lines, or vice versa.
(c) EXTERNAL EXTENSION RENTALS
Present Proposed
£ s. d. £ s. d.
Mileage charge (per quarter) (per quarter)
Each furlong or part up to 4 furlongs 7 6 Each furlong or part up to 4 furlongs 15 0
Over 4 up to 6 furlongs 2 0 6 Over 4 up to 6 furlongs 4 10 0
to 2 11 0
And so on by furlong steps And so on by 10s. 6d. steps And so on by ¼ mile steps And so on by £1 10s. steps
Over 3 up to 3½ miles 12 10 6 Over 3 up to 3½ miles 21 0 0
to 14 2 0
And so on by furlong steps And so on by 10s. 6d. steps And so on by ½mile steps And so on by £3 steps
Over 4½ miles up to 5 miles 18 16 6 Over 4½ up to 5 miles 30 0 0
to 20 8 0
Over 5 up to 6 miles 20 18 6 Over 5 up to 6 miles 35 0 0
to 24 12 0
And so on by furlong steps And so on by 10s. 6d. steps And so on by 1 mile steps And so on by £5 steps
Over 30 up to 35 miles 125 18 6 Over 30 up to 35 miles 175 0 0
to 146 8 0
£ s d £ s. d.
(per quarter) (per quarter)
And so on by furlong steps And so on by And so on by 5 mile steps And so on by
10s. 6d. steps £20 steps
Over 50 up to 60 miles 209 18 6 Over 50 up to 60 miles 262 10 0
to 251 8 0
And so on by furlong steps And so on by And so on by 10 mile steps And so on by
10s. 6d. steps £25 steps
Over 150 up to 175 miles 629 18 6 Over 190 up to 200 miles 612 10 0
to 734 8 0
Over 175 up to 200 miles 734 18 6 And so on by 10 mile steps And so on by
to 839 8 0 £20 steps
Over 200 up to 250 miles 839 18 6 Over 290 up to 300 miles 812 10 0
to 1,049 8 0
Over 250 up to 300 miles 1,049 18 6 Over 300 up to 325 miles 837 10 0
to 1,259 8 0
Over 300 miles 1,259 18 6 Over 325 up to 350 miles 862 10 0
plus 10s. 6d. a furlong
Over 350 up to 375 miles 887 10 0
Over 375 up to 400 miles 912 10 0
Over 400 mile; 937 10 0
(These rates arc doubled for Plan 1A, 1C and Plan 9 extensions). (These rates will be doubled for Plan 9 extensions).
Present Proposed
£ s. d. £ s. d.
Termination charge (per quarter) (per quarter)
For all external extensions (other than plan extensions and extensions between PBXs) 13 6 For all external extensions (other than plan extensions, extensions between PBXs owned and maintained by subscriber, and extensions more than four furlongs in length) 15 0

NOTE 1: For plan extensions, the rental appropriate to a comparable internal plan extension is payable in addition.

NOTE 2: The present higher rental payable when the extension is provided by special methods of construction will be abolished.

(d) Private Manual Branch Exchange (PMBX) Rentals
Present Proposed
£ s. d. £ s. d.
Other than multiple type: (per quarter) (per quarter)
Size:
1+3 … 2 0 0 2 10 0
2+4 … 2 0 0 3 0 0
2+6 … 3 10 0 4 10 0
3+7 and 3+9 … 4 0 0 6 0 0
3+10 and 5+20 … 8 0 0 12 0 0
10+30 … 16 0 0 18 0 0
10+50 … 16 0 0 22 0 0
10+60 … 25 0 0 25 0 0
Multiple type: for each section … 25 0 0 33 0 0
(e) House Exchange System (HES) Rentals
Each internal or external station, or special extension
HES 1 (1+5 size) … 1 10 0 2 0 0
HES 2 (2+10 size) … 1 10 0 2 10 0
Additional apparatus for second main station … 14 0 1 5 0
(f) Coin-Box Rental … 11 3 1 0 0
(g) Answering Machine Rental … 10 0 0 8 0 0
(h) Out-of-Area Exchange Line Rentals
Present Proposed
A variable scale related to distance The charge for an external extension of similar length, plus the standard charge for an exchange line, plus (if the normal exchange and the out-of-area exchange are in different charging groups) a "group" charge of £12 10s. 0d. a quarter.
Present Proposed
£ s. d. £ s. d.
(I) Inland Private Circuit Rentals (per annum) {per annum)
Internal private circuits 3 0 0 5 0 0
External private circuits (a termination charge of £3 will be payable in addition on external private circuits up to 4 furlongs in length).
Present Proposed
£ s. d. £ s. d.
(charge per annum) (rate of charge per annum)
Up to 1 furlong 5 8 0 Up to ½ mile, in furlong steps £24 per mile
Over 1 up to 2 furlongs 6 6 0 From ½ mile to 1 mile, in ¼ mile steps £24 per mile
Over 2 up to 3 furlongs 7 10 0
And so on by 1 furlong steps And so on by £1 10s. steps From 1 mile to 3 miles, in ¼ mile steps £16 per additional mile
Over 2 up to 2¼ miles 28 10 0 From 3 miles to 5 miles, in ½ mile steps £16 per additional mile
And so on by ¼ mile steps And so on by £3 or £1 10s. steps
Over 3 up to 3¼ miles 39 0 0 From 5 miles to 30 miles, in 1 mile steps £16 per additional mile
And so on by ¼ mile steps And so on by £3 or £1 10s. steps From 30 miles to 35 miles in one 5 mile step £12 8s. 0d. per additional mile
Over 5 up to 5¼ miles 60 0 0
And so on by ¼ mile steps And so on by £3 or £1 10s. steps From 35 to 50 miles in 5 mile steps. £10 per additional mile
Over 10 up to 10½ miles 116 5 0 From 50 miles to 200 miles, in 10 mile steps £10 per additional mile
And so on by ½ mile steps And so on by £5 5s. steps
Over 24 up to 25 miles 270 0 0 From 200 miles to 300 miles, in 10 mile steps £8 per additional mile
And so on by 1 mile steps And so on by £12 steps From 300 miles to 400 miles, in 25 mile steps £4 per additional mile
Over 30 up to 32 miles 352 10 0
And so on by 2 mile steps And so on by £22 10s. steps Over 400 miles £3,500
Over 50 up to 53 miles 592 10 0
And so on by 3 mile steps And so on by £37 10s. steps
Over 80 up to 85 miles 990 0 0
And so on by 5 mile steps And so on by £60 steps
Over 150 up to 175 miles 1,830 0 0
to 2,070 0 0
Over 175 up to 200 miles 2,130 0 0
to 2,370 0 0
Over 200 up to 250 miles 2,430 0 0
to 2,970 0 0
Over 250 up to 300 miles 3,030 0 0
to 3,570 0 0
Over 300 miles 3,630 0 0
to 4,770 0 0
(at 400 mile)

(j) Special Services

Other services, such as telegraph circuits and apparatus and circuits suitable for music transmission, subject to individual agreements, will be increased after due notice.

(k) Connection Charges
(other than exchange lines) Present Proposed
£ s. d. £ s. d.
from 5 0 0
External extension 2 0 0 to 50 0 0
(according to distance)
House exchange systems: each station 5 0 0 8 0 0
Private manual branch exchanges (PMBXs) Size:
1+3 2 0 0 5 0 0
2+4 4 0 0 6 0 0
2+6 7 0 0 9 0 0
3+7 and 3+9 8 0 0 12 0 0
3+10 and 5+20 16 0 0 24 0 0
10+30 32 0 0 36 0 0
10+50 32 0 0 44 0 0
10+60 50 0 0 50 0 0
Multiple type (each section) 100 0 0 132 0 0
(The internal removal charges for private manual branch exchanges will be increased in proportion to the increase in the appropriate connection charges.)
Coin box Nil 4 0 0
Internal private circuit Nil 2 0 0
External private circuit Nil from 5 0 0
to 50 0 0
(according to distance)
(I) Charges for Telephone Cords
Minor increases are to be made in the single-payment charges for telephone instrument cords and house exchange system station cords of special length or colour.
(m) Charge for Coloured Telephone
The single-payment charge for a coloured instrument will be reduced from £3 to £1 10s. A chaiige-of-apparatus charge may also be payable.
II. POSTAL CHARGES
Changes to operate from 1st October, 1961
1. INLAND AND TO IRISH REPUBLIC
Present Proposed
(a) (i) Printed Papers and Samples 2d. for 2 oz. 2½d. for 2 oz.
Maximum weight printed papers—2 1b. 4d. for 4 oz. 4d. for 4 oz.
then then
Maximum weight samples—8 oz. 1d. per 2 oz. 1d. per 2 oz.
(Sample service not available to Irish Republic).
(ii) Printed Papers and Samples Posted in Bulk, and complying with special conditions in regard to method and times of posting and delivery. (Arrangement not applicable to items for the Irish Republic). As in (a) (i) but rebates will be given. Basically the rebates will be 10 per cent, of the total postage for postings of 5,000–24,999 and 20 per cent of the total postage for postings of 25,000 and above.
(b) Newspapers (per Copy) (Maximum weight—2 lb.) 2½d. for 6 oz. 3d. for 6oz.
then then
1½d. per 6 oz. 1½d. per 6 oz.
(c) Parcels:— s. d. s. d.
Up to 2 lb. … … … … … 1 6 2 0
3 lb. … … … … … 1 9 2 3
4 1b. … … … … … 2 0 2 6
5 lb. … … … … … 2 3 2 9
6 1b. … … … … … 2 6 3 0
7 1b. … … … … … 2 9 3 3
8 1b. … … … … … 3 0 3 6
11 lb. … … … … … 3 3 3 9
15 1b. … … … … … 3 6 4 0
2. GENERAL
(d) Stamping of Paper for use as Postcards, Wrappers Envelopes:— Present Proposed
Postcards and wrappers Nil Various: from 10s. to 25s. for the first 1,000 or part of 1,000 stamps impressed depending on type of paper and number of stamps impressed per sheet. For each additional 100 or part of 100 stamps impressed one tenth of the above fees.
Envelopes Nil 15s. for the first 1,000 or part of 1,000 stamps impressed. For each additional 100 or part of 100 stamps impressed one tenth of the above fees.

2.53 p.m.

LORD CROOK

My Lords, I have been asked by my noble Leader to say that noble Lords on this side of the House will want to look at the statement and at the paper which is to be laid in the Printed Paper Office. But may I, as an "off-the-cuff" comment, say to the noble Lord how much I sympathise with him in having to make this statement this afternoon. It is indeed the kind of statement that when I spoke in March on behalf of noble Lords on these Benches on the Post Office Bill, I forecast that the noble Lord would probably have to make. I then referred to the inadequacy of the provisions made in the Bill, and drew attention to the comments which had been made in another place by my colleagues on the Labour Benches and which we had made here. Indeed, I summed it up by saying that the limitation put on the borrowing powers, both short-term and lona-term, are not what most people in the House who are running businesses would regard as much commercial freedom.

There has been commercial freedom in the Post Office for a limited number of weeks. This is the first statement which is made about commercial freedom, and it means that once again there has been clapped on to industry and to people among the working, classes, who can ill-afford it, a completely unexpected and heavy charge. Industry will not find an extra £2 per telephone exchange within the office, and extra to pay on its costs in regard to the rise in the printed paper and parcel rate charges, a palatable prelude to the statement which the Chancellor is expected to make to-morrow. The people out in the country who rely for their social contact on the telephone, already apprehensive and worried and writing to the Postmaster General about the increases as a consequence of the limitation to a period of three minutes, will find the extra £2 per annum which is now to be added perhaps that little straw that breaks the camel's back.

Again, I would remind the noble Lord and, through him, the Government, that I said on behalf of noble Lords on these Benches that while we acquiesced in the Post Office Bill we were not too happy to see the generality of the arrangements, and we should like that pledge on the commercial statements, when they were made. We, for our part, could not leave aside our belief that the Post Office service represented a social as well as commercial obligation upon the country. Those are points of the kind that we should want to refer to. The fact that the first commercial statement made after the Department has been commercialised says that these higher charges are to prevent sharp increases in the Department's dependence upon the Exchequer for capital, is so surprising that I do no know how to comment on it adequately.

THE LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL AND MINISTER FOR SCIENCE (VISCOUNT HAILSHAM)

My Lords, I am sorry to interrupt the noble Lord, but this is only a Government statement. If the noble Lord wishes to initiate a debate, of course it is open to him under the rules to do so, but I should think it would be more appropriate to do so in the ordinary way, if that is what he wishes to do.

LORD CROOK

I am quite willing to fall in with the suggestion of the noble Viscount the Leader of the House that I should not go on. I do not want to be accused later of causing the abandonment of further Bills. The Government have already had to abandon enough. I should not like them to have to lose another as a result of what I say. We will return to this matter if the noble Viscount the Leader of the House enables us to do so. We should have done so, whether he did or not. Any comment on the fact that the telephone service is running at a loss, having regard to the debate I initiated and to which the noble Lord replied on February 1, 1961, and the £17 million per annum profit which was being made, must leave us so staggered that we are bound to put a Motion on the Order Paper.

3.58 p.m.

LORD REA

My Lords, I should like to associate noble Lords on these Benches with the expression of sympathy extended by the noble Lord, Lord Crook, to the Postmaster General and to the noble Lord for having to bring this matter forward. When one has a monopoly in an essential service it seems rather tragic that one cannot make it pay. As the noble Lord, Lord Crook, says, it is a social service too, and it bears hardly on people of the lower income group. Would the noble Lord bear in mind on future occasions the possibility of spreading these increases according to ability to pay, and not to put them as a flat rate on everybody? It bears hardly on some people.

THE EARL OF LISTOWEL

My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord how business people are to find out which are the large users to whom he referred who will get concessions in regard to the increased postal rate for printed paper?

LORD ST. OSWALD

My Lords, if the noble Earl, Lord Listowel, wants me to give him an answer, I can do so now, but he will find it in the information which I have referred to as being available in the Printed Paper Office. The size of the user will depend, quite clearly, on how much he sends out, measured in thousands of packets or thousands of samples. It will be statistical. There will be no doubt about who is and who is not a large user.

THE EARL OF LISTOWEL

My Lords, there must be some definition.

LORD ST. OSWALD

There is a definition in regard to it.

LORD CROOK

My Lords, would it not be good enough to say that if you send out a number of football coupons you will get better terms than the ordinary business person?

LORD ST. OSWALD

These details will be available in the Printed Paper Office. Turning to the two short speeches made by noble Lords opposite, I should like to draw their attention to the fact that this is not simply a result of the changed status of the Post Office. These matters take account of the exact mathematics of the Post Office, which would have to be faced whether the Post Office were on its original status or its new one. In the current financial year the effect of increases in wage rates and the shorter working week is to add £21 million to our wage bill of £280 million, an increase of nearly 8 per cent. in one year. The last general increase in Post Office prices took place in October, 1957. There are very few firms which have not increased their prices in the last four years. My right honourable friend is now budgeting for an increase of £25 million on a turnover of £500 million, an overall increase of 5 per cent.

EARL ATTLEE

My Lords, may I take it that there is no proposal to mike the Press pay properly for their telegrams? They are heavily subsidised at the moment.

LORD ST. OSWALD

My Lords, there is in fact no change in the Press rate.

EARL ATTLEE

I thought not.