HL Deb 20 July 1961 vol 233 cc775-8
LORD BOSSOM

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the second Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government if they have details of the number of passengers using London Airport who come by road in (a) private cars, (b) by air-line buses, or (c) by any other form of transport; and how many of these are spectators or accompanying travellers, and how many are actual travellers.]

LORD DENHAM

My Lords, during 1960 2,618,057 passengers left London (Heathrow) Airport by air. On the basis of sampling it is estimated that approximately 33 per cent. (or about 864,000) travelled to the airport by private car; approximately 52 per cent. (or about 1,374,000) by airline coach; and approximately 15 per cent. (or about 380,000) by other forms of transport. A total of 949,631 spectators visited the roof gardens, of whom approximately 32 per cent. (or about 300,000) travelled by private car. There were no figures available of other visitors.

LORD BOSSOM

My Lords, while thanking my noble friend for that Answer, in view of the vast number of people who are coming, and the fact that this number is steadily increasing, does he not think it desirable to have some other means of transport to get them to the airport so that they will not congest the roads, as not only the airport but the roads get congested as these passengers arrive?

LORD DENHAM

My Lords, the planned road improvements will cater for all the road traffic that Heathrow can generate. The Government have not yet received from the promoters of several monorail schemes all the comprehensive technical information for which they asked. It will not be possible to say whether a monorail is the right answer to the problem of competing with any congestion until this information is available.

LORD OGMORE

My Lords, can the noble Lord inform us what steps are being taken to complete arrangements for a helicopter service between the two parts of London Airport, Heathrow and Gatwick?

LORD DENHAM

I cannot give the noble Lord an Answer to that question for the moment, but I will let him know.

LORD MANCROFT

My Lords, the figures which the noble Lord has just given us suggest that until we have some major reconstruction of the whole of the transport facilities to and from London Airport we may have to forgo the luxury of allowing spectators to come anywhere near the place, wholly desirable though it may be for them to come, because they are cluttering up the airport in its major function of providing transport by air to and from this country.

LORD DENHAM

My Lords, I was not aware that from the figures one would get that impression, but I have no doubt my right honourable friend will consider what my noble friend has said.

LORD MORRISON OF LAMBETH

My Lords, as the noble Lord is aware, I use London Airport from time to time and I have not noticed this congestion. If I may put it to him, I have noticed a great deal of happiness on the part of visitors who come to London Airport, especially the youngsters, who see the aircraft coming and going. So, while giving consideration to the noble Lord opposite, I hope that the Government will not do anything about needlessly interfering with the happiness of the population.

THE EARL OF GOSFORD

My Lords, before the noble Lord answers, may I slay that I too use London Airport, and I think that if the noble Lord opposite does not find any congestion it may be because he does not use it very often on Sundays. But I think my noble friend should bring to the attention of the Minister the congestion in the buildings on Sundays, when travellers are swamped by spectators, to the detriment of the travelling public.

VISCOUNT ELIBANK

My Lords, in reference to what was said by the noble Lord, Lord Mancroft, is the noble Lord aware that before the London and North Eastern Railway was nationalised we had begun to examine the advantages of monorail transport; and is he also aware that monorail transport is operating very successfully in certain parts of the Continent?

LORD DENHAM

My Lords, I will bring all these remarks of your Lordships to the attention of my right honourable friend.

LORD MERRIVALE

My Lords, in view of the large number of passengers and spectators who use the facilities provided at London Airport (Heathrow), and in particular who avail themselves of the facilities provided in the main hall on the first floor of the central buildings and the adjoining caféteria. may I ask my noble friend what are the intentions of his right honourable friend with regard to the lack of ventilation which is prevalent at the moment in those two parts of that building? Am I not right in believing that that central building was originally planned to be air-conditioned? It is felt by many people there that there is an insufficiently frequent change of air at that central building.

LORD DENHAM

My Lords, my noble friend was kind enough to give me notice that he was going to raise this supplementary question. The main building at London Airport is mechanically ventilated and the system there allows for six changes of air per hour, which is thought to be quite a fair allowance. It was never intended that the building should be air-conditioned, taking that as meaning air-cooling. It was discussed whether the new long-haul terminal at present under construction should be air-conditioned, but it was decided that the mechanical ventilation should be installed there, too, for many reasons, among them being the one of cost.

LORD STONHAM

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the figures he quoted do not bear out the contention that the spectators are causing such congestion? The figures he quoted show that 40,000 passengers every week come by airline bus and private car and only 8,000 spectators come by car, some of whom come to see passengers off at the airport. Will he not be too ready to agree that spectators cause congestion?

LORD DENHAM

Would the noble Lord repeat the last part of his question?

LORD STONHAM

I asked the noble Lord not to be too ready to agree that the spectators caused the congestion.

LORD DENHAM

My Lords, I have quoted a very large number of figures, and I will certainly consider what the noble Lord has said, and I thank him for his intervention.

LORD BOSSOM

My Lords, might I inquire of my noble friend whether, when this number of passengers increases very much and a monorail or some other type of transport is essential, that will be a part of the national transport system or will the Government help to finance it?

LORD DENHAM

My Lords, I think that is more a question for my right honourable friend the Minister of Transport.