HL Deb 19 July 1961 vol 233 cc645-6

2.17 p.m.

EARL WINTERTON

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, in view of the criticisms which have appeared in some quarters about sentences imposed by the courts, they will make it clear that the Judiciary has the sole right to impose such sentences and cannot be subjected to outside influence.]

THE LORD CHANCELLOR (VISCOUNT KILMUIR)

My Lords, the determination of sentences in criminal cases is, subject to any limitations imposed by law, entirely within the discretion of the courts. I agree with the noble Earl that it is desirable that the courts' exercise of this discretion should be completely free.

EARL WINTERTON

My Lords, may I thank my noble and learned friend on the Woolsack for his very favourable answer on this very delicate matter.

LORD BIRKETT

My Lords, might I ask the noble and learned Viscount on the Woolsack: Is it not a rather dangerous thing to suggest (if the Question does suggest) that Her Majesty's Judges are immune from public criticism? Is it not the right of every citizen in this country to criticise a sentence imposed by a Judge, or indeed any other act done in a judicial capacity, providing that it is done respectfully and without any imputation of improper motives? For example, is it not a fact that, if a citizen thinks that a sentence of, for instance, 40 years imprisonment is an intolerable thing, he should be entitled to say so?

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

My Lords, with great respect to my noble and learned friend, Lord Birkett, I think he has in mind an entirely different matter from that in the mind of my noble friend Lord Winterton. If my noble and learned friend Lord Birkett will look at the Question, he will see that the concluding words are— cannot be subjected to outside influence. I do not think that my noble and learned friend's question really touched that point. He is dealing with the position after sentence has been imposed. I agree with him that, as the late noble Lord, Lord Atkin, said in a well-known case, justice is not a cloistered virtue, and the administration of justice is subject to criticism, just like anything else in our free society. In fact, the justification of my!own triple position as head of the Judiciary, a member of the Executive and a Member of your Lordships' House, is that there should be someone answerable in Parliament for the administration of justice. But I say again that that does not justify for a moment—and I hope that my noble and learned friend Lord Birkett will not be interpreted as justifying—outside influence and pressure on the Judiciary in coming to their decisions.